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EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

appleinsider.com

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Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#711

Post by sime2009 »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #694
robertlagrant wrote: post #670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If V8 becomes a monopoly, and with it chromium, then Google can finally be "properly" hit with an antitrust case over Chrome V8 isn't a monopoly in the antitrust sense, at all. Google gives away the source code to most of Chrome that allows other people to make browsers with it, and they do. Something being popular doesn't indicate a monopoly. Microsoft could choose to make a browser engine, but they don't, and it'…

I think this isn't the case. There were alternatives to Internet Explorer, yet Microsoft was hit with antitrust measures for defaulting to IE. I believe that something being sufficiently popular does make it a monopoly in the antitrust sense - there's language around "market dominance" in there [0]. I'm just an MBA not a lawyer, though. 0: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/monopoly.asp

Having a monopoly isn't illegal. Using a monopoly as power in another market is. Microsoft got hit because they used their monopoly in desktop operating systems to freeze out competition in the browser market and jam IE down people's throats. The browser market being a different market than the desktop operating system market.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#712

Post by zuhsetaqi »

ValentineC wrote: post #512
nunez wrote: post #166

Fucking good. It's bullshit that you can only run Safari on iOS or that the App Store is the only store you can use. Yes, I understand the security implications of a third-party browser having deeper integrations into the OS and potential battery life concerns. I also don't care. I want to run Firefox on my phone. The actual thing. With containers and extensions. Let Safari compete on the merits. I want the choice of…

> It's bullshit that you can only run Safari on iOS or that the App Store is the only store you can use. What I really want is an up-to-date browser even if iOS stops being supported on an old phone of mine. (And they seem to be dropping support faster, what with iOS 17 not supporting the iPhone X — introduced in 2017 — without any legitimate hardware reason.) It's ridiculous that Safari and the underlying WebKit eng…

> The iOS and iPadOS 16.7 update covers all devices that could run version 16, including older stuff like the iPhone 8, iPhone X, and first-gen iPad Pro that can't be upgraded to version 17. In a couple of months, if precedent holds, newer devices will have to upgrade to keep getting security fixes, while iOS 16 updates will continue to support older devices for at least another year.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/09/ios-16-7-arrives-for...

Could you update to iOS 16.7 and check which Safari version it uses? Would be interesting to know. On macOS you can already install the newest Safari version even when running 3 year old macOS.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#713

Post by FridgeSeal »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #411
allenrb wrote: post #383

Good lord, this is the whinge that never ends, isn’t it? If you want an Android phone, dozens if not hundreds of companies will sell you one. You can quite literally choose the level of openness you desire. Personally I prefer the Apple ecosystem where things just tend to work well. It would be difficult to care less about running something other than Safari on an iPhone. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy Apple’s produ…

I downvoted this because you're ignoring iMessage. The fact that Apple purposefully not only gives Android users a shitty experience when communicating with iOS users, but also ensures that the presence of an Android user can break the experience for everyone else in a group chat (e.g. degraded videos now for everyone) in iMessage is a blatant attempt to abuse their monopoly power (in the US at least where iMessage d…

> The fact that Apple purposefully not only gives Android users a shitty experience when communicating with iOS users

Because it’s an iOS-to-iOS product feature. Because its functionality is predicated on Apple Hardware features. If you want iOS features, buy an iOS device.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#714

Post by Moldoteck »

FridgeSeal wrote: post #699
Moldoteck wrote: post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't use instagram, simple choice))) Or, hear me out, you would be able to use insta in the browser with iblock installed so that you don't have ads and part of tracking!

And what about the users who wish to use Insta for sharing photos on socials, but don’t want to allow fb wholesale access to their data? Why are their concerns so glibly ignored?

ask fb? it's the business of the fb to distribute their apps. Or, you can use insta for sharing photos... in the browser, and even block the ads.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#715

Post by theshrike79 »

sixstringtheory wrote: post #180
theshrike79 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to StatCounter Firefox's market share of all browsers is 2.93% followed closely by Samsung Internet(?) 2.59% and Opera 2.26% I wouldn't call that "just fine". If not for Safari (18.84% market share) Google could just dictate what happens on the Internet, because Chrome-based browsers would be the de facto standard. The only reason sites still bother to support non-Chrome browsers is the fact that people on…

> people on iOS monetise REALLY well compared to other segments And therein lies the motivation to "open up" Apple's ecosystem, people just can't stand looking at all those dollar signs without being able to get their hands on them any way possible. "So Apple just gets exclusive access to their users' money?!?" Well, they are the ones that built and maintain the ecosystem. Everyone else just wants to get in there and…

The "problem" is that Apple gets most of their money from hardware sales, they don't need to be able to uniquely identify their users to make huge bank.

Thus they go privacy first in things just because they can. Like randomising IDs used to identify players across apps and services. You should've seen the tears marketing shed when that change happened.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#716

Post by theshrike79 »

theshrike79 wrote: post #113
organsnyder wrote: post #70

I was at [IAPP Global Privacy Summit]( https://iapp.org/conference/global-privacy-summit/ ) 2022, where Tim Cook gave a keynote. He started with highlighting all of the ways Apple protects its users privacy (many of which are great, and the reason I use Apple products!), but then he pivoted to make the case that Apple being forced to allow rival app stores would compromise their ability to protect users' privacy. Thi…

It's like taking a rabid badger as a roommate. You can in theory keep it cornered in its own room (sandbox), but there's no way to be 100% sure it'll stay there. You can be absolutely sure that it will never stop trying to get out. App Store apps can be trusted to stick to a sandbox because they are vetted to a standard before being allowed there. There's no reason for Epic-F-Droid-Store have their applications adher…

-4 points, really?

Argue with the premise, don't just tap downvote. This isn't Reddit.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#717

Post by a-user-you-like »

nunez wrote: post #409
coldtea wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You care enough to buy iPhones and iOS, but not enough to buy Android and do all those things.

I can love my Apple devices and also wish for features.

Wish for extra features is not the same thing as crush the free market with the arm of government.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#718

Post by a-user-you-like »

ankurdhama wrote: post #515
thehappypm wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me the closed ecosystem is just a nice user experience. Explaining to my mom how to download Whatsapp is simple with just one way to do it. All apps are downloaded the same way. There’s one login. One payment method. Everything kinda “just works” and Apple does its best to keep apps sandboxed and secure. To the typical end user, a more open environment is just more choice and more headache.

Having more choice means that in case you need them you can use these other choices, it doesn't mean you will have to explain to someone about all these different choices and how they work, your current explanation of how to download apps will still be valid. Also, these new choices will not impact the sandbox implementation of core iOS.

Until everyone moved out of Apples store due to the Apple tax and you have to go explain to non-techies how to avoid spam and malware.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#719

Post by sensanaty »

gigatexal wrote: post #697
politelemon wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reads like a modern retelling of the Stockholm syndrome and I cringe at this prevalent attitude on HN. If you do not have choice on the platform, you are in a prison. That is why it's called jailbreaking .

Are you or folks that take this same tact marching on Microsoft and Sony with pitchforks to open up the OS and hardware for Xbox and PlayStation?

How would that be a bad thing? All that would mean is users get the best of both worlds, so yes please.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#720

Post by gigatexal »

Moldoteck wrote: post #704
gigatexal wrote: post #696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If governments force Apple's hand so be it what can Apple do then, but if I could help it, I'd not want it to be opened up for 3rd parties.

why? id doesn't affect your freedom to use only appstore

Because it opens the possibility for folks to get duped into installing something from a different app store that could lead to all sorts of problems. I am thinking about less sophisticated users like my boomer mom and aunts and uncles who if you're a nerd like me you're often the relied upon first line of tech support.
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