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EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

appleinsider.com

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Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#681

Post by coldtea »

Moldoteck wrote: post #664
coldtea wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Competition is always good for the consumers. So lets have a walled-garden OS compete with a sideloading-enabled/free-for-all/anything goes OS. But no, instead they have to break a good thing. Now every idiotic company like Adobe will demand their own installers, and updaters, and background processes that you can't turn off, and piss all over the iOS, like they do on the macOS. And let's not get started onto force…

So don't use adobe? Why you are writing like you are forced to sideload? You can just not sideload and stay in the apple's ecosystem and be safe. Don't install chrome if it's worse experience than safari? That's the thing with freedom: if you value your privacy, you'll still get it without sideloading/not using products that are screwing you

>So don't use adobe? Why you are writing like you are forced to sideload?

Because it doesn't matter if they don't threaten to kill you. If you need the apps and they only offer them via sideload, then you're still forced.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#682

Post by matheusmoreira »

toastal wrote: post #649
matheusmoreira wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if you want to run WhatsApp or your bank's app.

Even the KaiOS support ended for WhatsApp. That’s not to say anyone should use that metadata-scraping, address-book-stealing service anyhow.

If only I could avoid it. Everyone in my country uses WhatsApp for literally everything. My choices are: (1) using WhatsApp, or (2) being ostracized.

At least it has end-to-end encryption.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#683

Post by coldtea »

sensanaty wrote: post #668
coldtea wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> let’s ignore the macOS elephant in the room The worst experiences on macOS come from companies with enough clout to piss on the standard mechanisms. Installing their BS installers, having "updaters" to run on the background, not shipping a DMG or PKG, asking you to disable the SIP, never bothering to update to newer APIs, not using the Mac App Store, and so on... (and it's usually some of the more expensive softwar…

I sadly have to use a Macbook for my dev job and I've literally never come across anything you're mentioning here, I can't see how any regular user would be coerced into disabling SIP

Perhaps because you're "sadl" using a Macbook "for your dev job". Meaning, you just run some IDE or whatever.

Try the wider enterprise and creative app market, and you'll find out.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#684

Post by ThatPlayer »

labcomputer wrote: post #416
LeoNatan25 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of that is already accounted for and protected by in the OS. An app cannot normally register daemons or agent (or even an XPC service). Installing is already limited to FrontBoard standard installation mechanism. All that will remain in a possible open iOS future.

> An app cannot normally register daemons or agent (or even an XPC service). Installing is already limited to FrontBoard standard installation mechanism. All that will remain in a possible open iOS future. So Apple won’t comply with the EU law then?

EU law doesn't have any requirements to change that.

The only requirement is that any APIs first party Apple services use can also be used by competing 3rd parties. If Apple isn't using those features in any competing services, they don't have to open it up for everyone. Alternately they could remove those APIs from their own apps and still be complying.

The goal is fair competition. I should be able have Google Pay to compete with Apple Pay, but Apple don't let other apps use the NFC for that. It's not fair competition when iMessage can be your default SMS app, but WeChat/WhatsApp can't. But if Apple choose to, they could separate iMessage and SMS and still be fine under EU law, cuz now none of the competing iMessage/WeChat/WhatsApp will be your SMS app.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#685

Post by Manfred »

Moldoteck wrote: post #678
throwaway29645 wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not aware of any other alternative client available other than the default Meta one.

I mean, just don't use it. Also there are matrix/element, signal, telegram(a bit worse for security), or you can use Beeper if WA is so mega important

I personally don’t use WhatsApp because I enjoy it, it’s just the app with the critical mass in my family and friend group.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#686

Post by sensanaty »

cmdli wrote: post #184

I, for one, do not look forward to having to sideload Facebook, Instagram, Google, Gmail, and every single other megacorps app just because they want to track my every click. I would rather give power to Apple than all the other companies.

Yeah it's hell on android having to install all of these separate app stores.... Oh, except it isn't, 99.9% of these apps just exist on the Play Store.

If you don't like them, just don't use them, right? I mean that's the argument we're seeing against these changes, how does it not apply equally the opposite way? If you don't want to use an app like Facebook because it's on its own separate appstore, then don't. Besides, I don't see a reality in which these companies forego the easy native solution with millions of users in favor of whatever the process sideloading would involve.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#687

Post by marticode »

runeks wrote: post #662
Moldoteck wrote: post #640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So don't sideload them and use apple's products just like before, you have the freedom to not install them

> […] you have the freedom to not install them What if Instagram decides to require side loading to install their app — in order to increase ad revenue?

They don't on Android, why would they on iOS?

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#688

Post by coldtea »

kaba0 wrote: post #552
coldtea wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You care enough to buy iPhones and iOS, but not enough to buy Android and do all those things.

So I should be settled with inferior hardware, and huge privacy violations? Because the only way out from the latter is GrapheneOS on the Pixel, which is definitely not as great hardware-wise as the last few iphones, and then we didn’t even get to other properties like proper second-hand market and support.

>So I should be settled with inferior hardware, and huge privacy violations?

Of course not! You can bring the "huge privacy violations" to iOS, so all of us can enjoy them if we want to use Facebook, Instagram, some Google app, etc.!

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#689

Post by Sayrus »

pojzon wrote: post #665

Im reading this whole discussion and Im totally buffled by ppl trying to FORCE their way of thinking on others. Nobody forces ppl to use Apple products, nobody forces ppl to use Google products. Ppl do so because they have no options to choose from. So - Instead of fixing the issue of "there is no options to choose from" we try to force OUR rules on companies that operate totally within the rules of open market. The…

> Nobody forces ppl to use Apple products, nobody forces ppl to use Google products. Ppl do so because they have no options to choose from.

If I use neither Google nor Apple, I loose access to banking apps and other third-party apps. I have a choice not to use them, but that means I loose access to products that were developed by neither of those. Hell, even if I use Google's hardware (Pixels) but not Google software (Play Services), I loose these apps. Same goes for Instant Messaging, you can choose to use a competitor, but then you won't be able to discuss with other persons unless you convince them to use the same software as you do.

> The issue we have should be solved by GOVERMENTs to make it easier for others to build and grow as competitors to Apple and Google. > Tho they play only following the rules created by GOVERMENT in the first place..

You say that the government should change the rules to ensure competitions is possible. But isn't that what DMA creates? It (in part) allows new competitors by reducing network effect and enforcing interoperability.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#690

Post by rad_gruchalski »

idkwhoiam wrote: post #614

Hey EU, can you please ask BMW to open everything up to its rivals so that I can use Toyota's infotainment system instead of BMW's iDrive. I also want to be able to run PS games on XBox & vice versa without having to buy separate copies. And lastly, how about you open up your very own market to everyone by lifting protectionist taxes

Right? I'd also like to have an alternative to the EU parliament. And an alternative to my local tax office. Let's stop the monopoly on the government services. Open it all up.
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