Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

appleinsider.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 1001 posts

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#281

Post by HWR_14 »

kibwen wrote: post #275
HWR_14 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google search, Youtube and many other properties will only work with Chromium as soon as it doesn't mean saying goodbye to iOS users.

The mindset here is so alien to me. Do people think that the EU is willing to take action against Apple, and yet somehow unwilling to take action against Google?

It's currently happening. Try using YouTube or Google Search on the desktop with, for example, MS Edge. Google will tell you you should download Chrome to work better.

The only reason that's not the case on iOS devices is that they don't have that option.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#282

Post by crop_rotation »

kibwen wrote: post #271
crop_rotation wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By this kind of logic there is so much bullshit wherever there is consumer choice, and all products should be legislated to be the same, Soviet style.

Pro-consumer stances are literally communism now?

It is not a pro consumer stance, it is pro power consumer stance, and anti the layperson consumer stance (who arguably deserve more support).

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#283

Post by kibwen »

sbuk wrote: post #207
grishka wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about personal choices, it's about enabling fair competition. If you sell a general-purpose computing device and market it as one, you should relinquish any control of it once it's sold.

Who decided the iPhone is a general-purpose computing device?

Everything that I purchase that contains a CPU should be within my power to run arbitrary code upon.

Seriously, what site are we even on right now?

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#284

Post by coldtea »

LeoNatan25 wrote: post #255
quickco wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> iOS is a fantastic operating system. iPhone and iPad are stellar hardware with brilliant physical UX. Apple Watch is leagues beyond anything else in its class. I will keep buying Apple stuff until I can't anymore. People want Apple’s quality, reliability and performance, but also want no restrictions so they can run any app and install anything. Those things aren’t compatible. E.g., Windows and Linux (Desktop distr…

Yes, let’s ignore the macOS elephant in the room, and jump to Windows and Linux to straw-man an argument. There are “no restrictions”, one can “install anything” and “run any app” on that, and still it is … “reliable”? But actually both Windows and Linux are “reliable” too. Windows is much, much stable in terms of backwards compatibility than macOS and certainly iOS. Linux is so reliable that it runs about 99.9% of t…

>let’s ignore the macOS elephant in the room

The worst experiences on macOS come from companies with enough clout to piss on the standard mechanisms. Installing their BS installers, having "updaters" to run on the background, not shipping a DMG or PKG, asking you to disable the SIP, never bothering to update to newer APIs, not using the Mac App Store, and so on...

(and it's usually some of the more expensive software)

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#285

Post by grishka »

quickco wrote: post #248
grishka wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about personal choices, it's about enabling fair competition. If you sell a general-purpose computing device and market it as one, you should relinquish any control of it once it's sold.

> If you sell a general-purpose computing device and market it as one, you should relinquish any control of it once it's sold. The freedoms we have, and the freedom that should be protected is market choice to buy or not buy any consumer product. If you don’t like Apple, don’t buy its products and purchase a device from a large number of competitors. It is really that simple. There is no rule that consumers have a ri…

But as an app developer, I have no choice, Apple will act like they own my relationship with my users despite having done absolutely nothing for it.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#286

Post by redder23 »

jeroenhd wrote: post #225
redder23 wrote: post #191

Maybe not surprising but if you read the comments on the website there seems to be only Apple fanboys commenting who are butt-hurt about it. You can not make this up, consumers who root for a monopoly. This reminds me of gamers who hate the Epic Games Store with passion even though they give the actual devs of the games a bigger cut. Competition is always good for the consumers. And I get the security part when it co…

> if you read the comments on the website there seems to be only Apple fanboys commenting who are butt-hurt about it It makes sense, though: Apple is all about making things easier for the user at the expense of third party developers. Users don't need to deal with app reviewers denying bugfixes because they used the demo credentials on the wrong app, they can just be mad at apps for being buggy. Banks all around the…

Valve had a 17 years or so time to develop a launcher b4 Epic entered the market. And even if their laucher would be bad, its just where the people are, where they have their collection, they do not want to leave it. Its actually not such much about how good Steam is, its about the time advantage Valve has.

And of course they have the better launcher. But now they are soo big, and they have such a de-facto monopoly that Epic had to go to extreme measures to get some market share. And that is using Fortnite kids parents money to give out free games all the time while actually paying the devs for the games and pay massive amounts of money to devs for exclusive deals. Its all money they have from Fortnite and (Chinese) investors. That also sucks but its better then just one store in town. Bethshitsda has given up on their own distribution and they are back 100% on Steam and they just suck it up and pay the 30% because they failed to compete, no surprise there.

I actually think the situations are pretty similar. Except that there is not even a open door to try to compete with the Apples Appstore right now. But they both take 30% and everyone is basically forced to pay it. Game devs can not just release on Epic. They must release on Steam and they must then pay 30% to Valve. If you release a mobile app you must release on Apple and Google play and they take 30%, its the same thing. Even thou there are other stores like Amazons shitty store you are just forced to publish on Google/Apple.

I just hope one day decentralization is so mainstream and consumers just buy from creators directly or some blockchain or something without a gatekeeper middlemen that sucks 30% off.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#287

Post by HWR_14 »

kibwen wrote: post #267
HWR_14 wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like Apple mandating WebKit is the only thing holding v8/Chromium from a total monopoly, the App Store monopoly is the only thing holding back "use Meta omni-permission store or get cut off from FB/IG/WhatsApp". And then Meta getting most companies to use their store because they'll take 10% and just the data.

Great, and then we can properly break up Facebook as well as Google. I see no downsides here.

Why should we have to let things get worse. Break up Meta and Google and MS and then talk to me about how we don't need Apple's store anymore. Don't remove the solution and then tell me you'll fix the problem later.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#288

Post by kibwen »

quickco wrote: post #224
nunez wrote: post #166

Fucking good. It's bullshit that you can only run Safari on iOS or that the App Store is the only store you can use. Yes, I understand the security implications of a third-party browser having deeper integrations into the OS and potential battery life concerns. I also don't care. I want to run Firefox on my phone. The actual thing. With containers and extensions. Let Safari compete on the merits. I want the choice of…

> iOS is a fantastic operating system. iPhone and iPad are stellar hardware with brilliant physical UX. Apple Watch is leagues beyond anything else in its class. I will keep buying Apple stuff until I can't anymore. People want Apple’s quality, reliability and performance, but also want no restrictions so they can run any app and install anything. Those things aren’t compatible. E.g., Windows and Linux (Desktop distr…

> Those things aren’t compatible.

Presented entirely without evidence.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#289

Post by LeoNatan25 »

coldtea wrote: post #284
LeoNatan25 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, let’s ignore the macOS elephant in the room, and jump to Windows and Linux to straw-man an argument. There are “no restrictions”, one can “install anything” and “run any app” on that, and still it is … “reliable”? But actually both Windows and Linux are “reliable” too. Windows is much, much stable in terms of backwards compatibility than macOS and certainly iOS. Linux is so reliable that it runs about 99.9% of t…

> let’s ignore the macOS elephant in the room The worst experiences on macOS come from companies with enough clout to piss on the standard mechanisms. Installing their BS installers, having "updaters" to run on the background, not shipping a DMG or PKG, asking you to disable the SIP, never bothering to update to newer APIs, not using the Mac App Store, and so on... (and it's usually some of the more expensive softwar…

Like on a possible iOS future, “don’t support what you don’t want to support”. You have the choice. Unlike current iOS, where some boogie-man chose for you.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#290

Post by coldtea »

redder23 wrote: post #191

Maybe not surprising but if you read the comments on the website there seems to be only Apple fanboys commenting who are butt-hurt about it. You can not make this up, consumers who root for a monopoly. This reminds me of gamers who hate the Epic Games Store with passion even though they give the actual devs of the games a bigger cut. Competition is always good for the consumers. And I get the security part when it co…

>Competition is always good for the consumers.

So lets have a walled-garden OS compete with a sideloading-enabled/free-for-all/anything goes OS.

But no, instead they have to break a good thing.

Now every idiotic company like Adobe will demand their own installers, and updaters, and background processes that you can't turn off, and piss all over the iOS, like they do on the macOS.

And let's not get started onto forced sideloaded Facebook (or having to make do without), and such, with all the tracking mechanisms dialed up to 11.

Or Chrome getting closer to total dominance and Google having its way with the web.

Post reply on HN