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EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

appleinsider.com

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Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#221

Post by easton »

madeofpalk wrote: post #179
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you like Apple's policies, just don't sideload and install everything from their official AppStore. Nothing will change for you then. You can do it on MacBooks as well.

I'm rather indifferent on the matter, but this doesn't quite hold true. It's possible (likely?) that a someone big - one who ordinary folk would go through the jumps for - would only publish their app via side loading (or alt app store) and use this to bypass some of the policy restrictions wrt privacy on the App Store. This then becomes a slippery slope and would act as a platform to allow other apps through. The to…

The only thing about this argument I don’t quite agree with is that can’t apple just continue to sandbox apps to heck and back even if they are sideloaded? Like, currently apps can’t get a unique identifier for a user without the user allowing tracking, I don’t see why that has to change because sideloading is a thing. Unless there’s an implicit “and also the apps need to be able to get root/super entitlements without user consent” in the law.

The App Store was only ever a first line of defense against icky behavior.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#222

Post by frizlab »

yreg wrote: post #73

My opinion won't be popular. I think it is nice to have a choice of a walled off platform. If I wanted a "more open" platform, I would get an Android phone. There are plenty of amazing Android phones. I choose the tradeoff of Apple's curation. Yes, I cannot run arbitrary software and sometimes it is a disadvantage. Yes, I don't agree with all of the App Store rules all of the time. Yes, I don't think the App Store re…

I totally agree and am bewildered that not more people do. The downsides and abuses to come are so obvious everybody should be revolting at the very idea. Instead we get a law to force it…

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#223

Post by gsich »

cmdli wrote: post #182
skullone wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe people would simply like choice? I know I know, Apple doesn't really offer any choice on their phones, but the point is they should.

But people have a choice. They can choose Android, but they don’t, even though they know iPhones are locked down. By this point, you have to assume that the people who buy iPhones are okay with it. Apple doesn’t have a monopoly by any means.

My guess is people don't know that.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#224

Post by quickco »

nunez wrote: post #166

Fucking good. It's bullshit that you can only run Safari on iOS or that the App Store is the only store you can use. Yes, I understand the security implications of a third-party browser having deeper integrations into the OS and potential battery life concerns. I also don't care. I want to run Firefox on my phone. The actual thing. With containers and extensions. Let Safari compete on the merits. I want the choice of…

> iOS is a fantastic operating system. iPhone and iPad are stellar hardware with brilliant physical UX. Apple Watch is leagues beyond anything else in its class. I will keep buying Apple stuff until I can't anymore.

People want Apple’s quality, reliability and performance, but also want no restrictions so they can run any app and install anything.

Those things aren’t compatible.

E.g., Windows and Linux (Desktop distros) don’t have many restrictions. But they can be unreliable.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#225

Post by jeroenhd »

redder23 wrote: post #191

Maybe not surprising but if you read the comments on the website there seems to be only Apple fanboys commenting who are butt-hurt about it. You can not make this up, consumers who root for a monopoly. This reminds me of gamers who hate the Epic Games Store with passion even though they give the actual devs of the games a bigger cut. Competition is always good for the consumers. And I get the security part when it co…

> if you read the comments on the website there seems to be only Apple fanboys commenting who are butt-hurt about it

It makes sense, though: Apple is all about making things easier for the user at the expense of third party developers. Users don't need to deal with app reviewers denying bugfixes because they used the demo credentials on the wrong app, they can just be mad at apps for being buggy. Banks all around the world are paying a secret Apple tax to let Apple users pay with iPay or whatever it's called.

I think the situation with Valve is different. Valve has competition and has had competition before; game launchers on Windows (and Linux, I suppose) are perfectly viable, it's just that none of their competition put any effort into making their game launchers as good as Valve's.

I think Apple should be able to charge whatever percentages they want, as long as you can install alternative app stores. If their customers accept the higher app prices in exchange for Apple's convenience features, the percentages are perfectly fair.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#226

Post by crop_rotation »

I have never owned an iPhone and even I find this a very bad idea. A lot of people buy iPhones because they prefer the choices made by Apple. If there were secondary AppStores, you would have a Metastore and a Googlestore very quickly, since Whatsapp and Google Maps have become indispensable for large parts of the world. You don't even have to take them off Apple store, but make newest features custom store only. The amount of money to be made by precisely targeted advertising by ignoring Apple's rules is immense.

Sure Apple is not as open as Google, and neither is as open as Arch Linux, but that doesn't have to be the best solution for every product. Phones are too personal and loaded with tons of personal data. Opening everything to it's rivals is just another phrase that consumer data is now in a free for all, a 21st century gold rush, just offer few bucks/conveniences that are hard to ignore and by the time you blink your entire social group is on 5 custom stores.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#227

Post by faeriechangling »

nunez wrote: post #166

Fucking good. It's bullshit that you can only run Safari on iOS or that the App Store is the only store you can use. Yes, I understand the security implications of a third-party browser having deeper integrations into the OS and potential battery life concerns. I also don't care. I want to run Firefox on my phone. The actual thing. With containers and extensions. Let Safari compete on the merits. I want the choice of…

>you can only run Safari on iOS

Apple mandating WebKit is the only thing holding v8 back from a total monopoly, while WebKit itself has no chance of being a monopoly in the forseeable future, so I doubt there's a good anti-competitive case to be made for forcing Apple to stop doing this. It would only accelerate the monopolisation of the browser market if this happened. It would be good for consumers in the short term to allow v8 on iOS but I deeply distrust Google.

Breaking the App Store monopoly there is a much stronger case for. There is a security argument for the app store, which I would accept were it not for Apple adding 43% to the purchase price of most paid applications, which is much worse for the end user than the average piece of malware. Not to mention the expenses it imposes on developers, like requiring them to maintain a subscription and buy Apple hardware.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#228

Post by Apocryphon »

cmdli wrote: post #184

I, for one, do not look forward to having to sideload Facebook, Instagram, Google, Gmail, and every single other megacorps app just because they want to track my every click. I would rather give power to Apple than all the other companies.

I don't think that's actually going to happen -

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33978081

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#229

Post by catiopatio »

grishka wrote: post #209
cmdli wrote: post #184

I, for one, do not look forward to having to sideload Facebook, Instagram, Google, Gmail, and every single other megacorps app just because they want to track my every click. I would rather give power to Apple than all the other companies.

A good solution to apps wanting to track your every click is not organizational but technical. Just don't give them APIs for reliable cross-app tracking. That advertising ID? It simply does not need to exist at all . Same for all the attribution bullshit. Besides, sideloading enables installation of modded apps giving users more choice.

The advertising ID gives users and Apple control over tracking when also coupled with AppStore policy that disallows improper use.

It’s impossible to prevent fingerprinting of users and devices via purely technical measures — taking away the advertising ID won’t help.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#230

Post by crop_rotation »

nunez wrote: post #166

Fucking good. It's bullshit that you can only run Safari on iOS or that the App Store is the only store you can use. Yes, I understand the security implications of a third-party browser having deeper integrations into the OS and potential battery life concerns. I also don't care. I want to run Firefox on my phone. The actual thing. With containers and extensions. Let Safari compete on the merits. I want the choice of…

By this kind of logic there is so much bullshit wherever there is consumer choice, and all products should be legislated to be the same, Soviet style.
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