I support forcing open standards on tech giants. But I don’t support singling out a specific tech giant (in this case Apple), since it means Apple’s also-tech-giant competitors get an upper hand. For example, why not force Google to open up Chrome, to increase interoperability? I want to be able to export saved passwords from Chrome and import them into the macOS keychain, and vice versa. If the EU focuses on Apple a…
EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals
651–660 of 1001 posts
Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals
#652Earlier quoted context omitted.
And so is my apartment door. But I can open the door whenever I want and its not up to my landlord to decide which guests I invite.
Except that it is certainly up to everything you consume to demand that you install their app through their shitty third party store. Imagine if your appliance manufacturer could dictate that you kept your door open for them.
Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals
#653Earlier quoted context omitted.
> WebKit itself has no chance of being a monopoly in the forseeable future Of course it won't, because Apple restricts it to run only on devices built by Apple. They had a Safari for Windows many years ago, then killed it.
Safari != WebKit. WebKit itself runs on Windows fine, Mac and Linux. Both Mac and Linux have browsers supported by the WebKit project (Safari and GNOME Web).
However the only Webkit based browser that matters is Safari and the only company pushing it is Apple and only on their hardware.
Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals
#654Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Nobody is forcing anyone to buy Apple’s products Nobody is forcing you to use any third party browser or app store of anything else.
But opening up the sandbox makes everyones phones more unsafe.
Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals
#655Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals
#656Earlier quoted context omitted.
To me the closed ecosystem is just a nice user experience. Explaining to my mom how to download Whatsapp is simple with just one way to do it. All apps are downloaded the same way. There’s one login. One payment method. Everything kinda “just works” and Apple does its best to keep apps sandboxed and secure. To the typical end user, a more open environment is just more choice and more headache.
Having more choice means that in case you need them you can use these other choices, it doesn't mean you will have to explain to someone about all these different choices and how they work, your current explanation of how to download apps will still be valid. Also, these new choices will not impact the sandbox implementation of core iOS.
So you want to hide them from the user? Are they really choices then anymore? Or how would the user know that these are choices they can, if they want, ignore?
"Hey mom, yeah, don't worry, just scroll past most of the 27 choices and pick the 16th one. That one turned out to be the one everyone uses, it's easiest to explain. Yes, the one between choice X and choice Y. Oh, wait that's Z for you? Hm, you must be on version C still. In version F it's the 16th one. Just tell me the last dozen ones. Hm, no. Oh, yeah, I guess that choice has not been added yet. I think it was part of update D that brought the other 3 choices. Yeah, sorry, guess you can't do it like everyone else then."
Edit: I tried to over-dramatize this but it feels like a conversation about Android I had the other day now that I read it myself ...
Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals
#657Good! I'm looking forward to having to uninstall a crypto miner on my mom's phone because it told her the only way to play a slots app is to allow third-party apps.
The "won't someone think of my mom" argument. Somehow we get by just fine on x86 with arbitrary software being allowed, but for IOS it's unthinkable?
Nokia’s Threat Intelligence Report of 2021[0] shows that Windows made up over 23% of all malware infections, in 2020[1] that was almost 39%.
They seem to have skipped 2022 and 2023 doesn’t seem ready yet.
More interesting however is looking at Android since Google has made efforts to match iOS in sandboxing the last few years, as well as the context provided with the statistics.
Where 2020 “only” saw Android come in at 26.64% with iOS coming in at 1.72%, in 2021 Android accounted for a whopping 50.31% of the infections while iOS didn’t even register on the charts.
Let me repeat that again: over half of all infections in 2021 were on Android devices.
Were these super sophisticated attacks? Let’s see, because Nokia, understandably so, dedicated significant sections of their reports to Android.
In 2020 they stated (emphasis mine):
> In the smartphone sector, the main venue for distributing malware is represented by Trojanized applications. The user is tricked by phishing, advertising or other social engineering into downloading and installing the application. The security of official app stores, such as Google Play Store, has increased continuously. However, the fact that Android applications can be downloaded from just about anywhere still represents a huge problem, as users are free to download apps from third-party app stores, where many of the applications, while functional, are Trojanized. iPhones applications, on the other hand, are for the most part limited to one source, the Apple Store.
In 2021 they stated (emphasis again mine):
> Among smartphones, Android devices remain the most targeted by malware due to the open environment and availability of third-party app stores.
> […]
> The number of Trojans targeting banking information through Android mobile devices has skyrocketed, putting millions of users around the world at financial risk.
> […]
> Banking Trojans can arrive on smartphones in a variety of ways, often disguised as common and useful apps. When run, they request a variety of permissions needed to perform their desired behavior, then often remove their icon from the application pane, effectively disappearing from the device. In many cases, the apps never provide the promised functionality that enticed the phone's owner to install them and are forgotten quickly after disappearing. However, they remain installed and continue to run as background tasks, using a variety of tricks to collect user information. These may include capturing keystrokes, superimposing their own transparent overlays onto bank login screens, taking screenshots and even accessing Google Authenticator codes.
So it looks like in most cases users are being tricked to install malware and grant permissions.
This all also explains why the whole “muh sandbox” argument carries little weight. Not only is the sandbox but a single layer of a bigger Swiss cheese model, the sandbox isn’t gonna help your mom if she’s tricked into granting permissions.
So I ask you again to define “just fine”, because from where I’m standing Windows making up more than 20% of all malware infections is far from “just fine”, let alone Android’s more than half. And I know you said x86, but the two and a half Linux users don’t really make a significant dent in statistics, nor is x86 the relevant platform for this discussion.
On top of that you can bet your ass that iOS users will be prime targets, certainly more desirable targets than random Android and Windows users, because of potential ill gotten gains.
0: https://vpnoverview.com/wp-content/uploads/nokia_threat_inte...
Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals
#658I support forcing open standards on tech giants. But I don’t support singling out a specific tech giant (in this case Apple), since it means Apple’s also-tech-giant competitors get an upper hand. For example, why not force Google to open up Chrome, to increase interoperability? I want to be able to export saved passwords from Chrome and import them into the macOS keychain, and vice versa. If the EU focuses on Apple a…
As for Chrome, it's already pretty open. Anyone can build extensions for it and distribute it freely. The same cannot be said for iOS.
Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals
#659I support forcing open standards on tech giants. But I don’t support singling out a specific tech giant (in this case Apple), since it means Apple’s also-tech-giant competitors get an upper hand. For example, why not force Google to open up Chrome, to increase interoperability? I want to be able to export saved passwords from Chrome and import them into the macOS keychain, and vice versa. If the EU focuses on Apple a…
The DMA applies to anyone with a "gatekeeper" role. Part of the criteria for the role are: having more than 45 million monthly active users and more than 10,000 yearly active business users established in the EU, for the past three years.
Six companies (and in particular, 22 services offered by those companies) are currently listed as gatekeepers. [1]
[1] https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_23_...
Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals
#660Fucking good. It's bullshit that you can only run Safari on iOS or that the App Store is the only store you can use. Yes, I understand the security implications of a third-party browser having deeper integrations into the OS and potential battery life concerns. I also don't care. I want to run Firefox on my phone. The actual thing. With containers and extensions. Let Safari compete on the merits. I want the choice of…
>you can only run Safari on iOS Apple mandating WebKit is the only thing holding v8 back from a total monopoly, while WebKit itself has no chance of being a monopoly in the forseeable future, so I doubt there's a good anti-competitive case to be made for forcing Apple to stop doing this. It would only accelerate the monopolisation of the browser market if this happened. It would be good for consumers in the short ter…
Google should've been hit with an antitrust case on Chrome years ago and their recent shenanigans with the topics api only make that more relevant, where now Google is playing gatekeeper to an already technically dubious system meant to put the spying on users directly into the browser (all because they couldn't solve the fact that the topics api still makes fingerprinting rather easy). Eliminating the "competition" that Google has artificially made needs to be done though because otherwise it's just not obviously visible.