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AI is fundamentally ‘a surveillance technology’

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Re: AI is fundamentally ‘a surveillance technology’

#71

Post by Maro »

johnnyworker wrote: post #54
jdthedisciple wrote: post #5

Does anybody know of a facial recognition AI that actually classifies faces as (non)-liars as she claims? Not sure about this take. You need data at the end of the day, to build good AI models. These days it feels like anyone's public takes are more or less just a means to promote their own cause. And I say this as a happy and long-time Signal user.

The point isn't whether those things are correct. They are used as tools of surveillance and oppression. > These are ultimately surveillance systems that are being marketed to those who have power over us generally: our employers, governments, border control, etc., to make determinations and predictions that will shape our access to resources and opportunities. And hey, the more arbitrary or even false something is,…

More balanced explanation of the Dutch case:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_childcare_benefits_scand...

Re: AI is fundamentally ‘a surveillance technology’

#72

Post by HourglassFR »

mavhc wrote: post #65
johnnyworker wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point isn't whether those things are correct. They are used as tools of surveillance and oppression. > These are ultimately surveillance systems that are being marketed to those who have power over us generally: our employers, governments, border control, etc., to make determinations and predictions that will shape our access to resources and opportunities. And hey, the more arbitrary or even false something is,…

"Authorities penalized families over a mere suspicion of fraud based on the system’s risk indicators" Don't do that part, nothing to do with AI, it's about humans being lazy

Have you met humans?

Re: AI is fundamentally ‘a surveillance technology’

#73

Post by moritonal »

rvz wrote: post #67

No shit. As already said years ago. [0] Closed source software is surveillance technology. Internet of Things is surveillance technology. Blockchain / crypto is surveillance technology. Virtual Reality is surveillance technology. AI is surveillance technology. Very disappointed that it took you guys this long to realize that, but it is too late to stop all of it entirely. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3161…

I guess the most generic is that "Convince is a surveillance technology"?

Passing the buck to someone else will always have surveillance effects.

Re: AI is fundamentally ‘a surveillance technology’

#74

Post by eimrine »

ben_w wrote: post #4

Ironic opening line from a website whose full screen banner is desperately trying to convince me that the tracking cookies they don't strictly need are of any benefit to me. > Why is it that so many companies that rely on monetizing the data of their users seem to be extremely hot on AI?

Just disable CSS, it solves GDPR problem and still let me see a text and pictures.

Re: AI is fundamentally ‘a surveillance technology’

#75

Post by fhd2 »

janAkali wrote: post #51
jdthedisciple wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It also says "By cross-checking everyone who enters the store against a database of identified shoplifters and unruly customers, facial recognition can detect and deter repeat offenders" and "Using facial recognition, retailers can know precisely when an employee arrives, takes breaks, and leaves for the day" Ofc you "can" - in principle. Is any of this currently being done, however?

> Is any of this currently being done, however? Companies aren't obligated to disclose the training process. So, we can't tell. Until, in the matter of months, it is available, accessible and almost impossible to regulate. And every company will start using it to not fall behind.

Why do you think it's impossible to regulate?

There's a _long_ list of unlawful things that are technically possible, sometimes trivial even. Only _because_ they are possible in the first place, are there laws against them. This process seems slow compared to a human lifespan, but lots of terrible things people used to do got outlawed eventually.

Re: AI is fundamentally ‘a surveillance technology’

#76

Post by hugh-avherald »

jdthedisciple wrote: post #29
michaelt wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the full quote from Whittaker is: > “You know, you walk past a facial recognition camera that’s instrumented with pseudo-scientific emotion recognition, and it produces data about you, right or wrong, that says ‘you are happy, you are sad, you have a bad character, you’re a liar, whatever.’ While I'm not aware of any technology that claims to classify faces as liars the rest of the statement is broadly true. An…

> It also says "By cross-checking everyone who enters the store against a database of identified shoplifters and unruly customers, facial recognition can detect and deter repeat offenders" and "Using facial recognition, retailers can know precisely when an employee arrives, takes breaks, and leaves for the day" Ofc you "can" - in principle. Is any of this currently being done, however?

Yes

https://www.smartcompany.com.au/industries/information-techn...

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/up-to-70-cameras-watch-y...

Re: AI is fundamentally ‘a surveillance technology’

#77

Post by npteljes »

Bad premise, and therefore nonsense conclusions, because AI can have many uses, aside from surveillance. In this regard, it's not like a gun, which is very specifically an instrument to kill, and has secondary uses like shooting sports, but rather it's a tool, like tongs, which can be used for building, cooking, and also to torture someone.

Advertising companies are jumping at AI for two things: it is hoped that it can give them an edge, and second, because they already have data, which is in fact fundamental for AI.

Re: AI is fundamentally ‘a surveillance technology’

#78

Post by Maro »

Occam's razor: the most profitable business model for Internet companies with very DAUs and Timespent/DAUs in the last 20 years was showing advertisements. Those very profitable companies are always working on cutting edge stuff, whether it's distributed systems, database research, datacenters, mobile hardware and software, or, as it is today, the various tools and methods grouped under the umbrella term AI.

Re: AI is fundamentally ‘a surveillance technology’

#79

Post by api »

nologic01 wrote: post #31

> [AI] requires the surveillance business model I think this is putting the horse before the cart. There is no doubt that the surveillance business model has captured tech. But "AI" - which to me is just the shortest possible way to say "algorithmic processing of digital information" - is just one more category of tools exploited to buttress and expand the dominance of said business model. It just happens that while…

> lets us not concede that surveillance capitalism owns every possible future of tech.

It does as long as it's the only way to finance tech, which seems to be the case.

Re: AI is fundamentally ‘a surveillance technology’

#80

Post by npteljes »

rvz wrote: post #67

No shit. As already said years ago. [0] Closed source software is surveillance technology. Internet of Things is surveillance technology. Blockchain / crypto is surveillance technology. Virtual Reality is surveillance technology. AI is surveillance technology. Very disappointed that it took you guys this long to realize that, but it is too late to stop all of it entirely. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3161…

Not really though. Cloud, for example, is more closely tied to surveillance than the examples you provided.
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