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AI is fundamentally ‘a surveillance technology’

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Re: AI is fundamentally ‘a surveillance technology’

#51

Post by janAkali »

jdthedisciple wrote: post #29
michaelt wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the full quote from Whittaker is: > “You know, you walk past a facial recognition camera that’s instrumented with pseudo-scientific emotion recognition, and it produces data about you, right or wrong, that says ‘you are happy, you are sad, you have a bad character, you’re a liar, whatever.’ While I'm not aware of any technology that claims to classify faces as liars the rest of the statement is broadly true. An…

> It also says "By cross-checking everyone who enters the store against a database of identified shoplifters and unruly customers, facial recognition can detect and deter repeat offenders" and "Using facial recognition, retailers can know precisely when an employee arrives, takes breaks, and leaves for the day" Ofc you "can" - in principle. Is any of this currently being done, however?

> Is any of this currently being done, however?

Companies aren't obligated to disclose the training process. So, we can't tell. Until, in the matter of months, it is available, accessible and almost impossible to regulate. And every company will start using it to not fall behind.

Re: AI is fundamentally ‘a surveillance technology’

#53

Post by agentgumshoe »

jdthedisciple wrote: post #29
michaelt wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the full quote from Whittaker is: > “You know, you walk past a facial recognition camera that’s instrumented with pseudo-scientific emotion recognition, and it produces data about you, right or wrong, that says ‘you are happy, you are sad, you have a bad character, you’re a liar, whatever.’ While I'm not aware of any technology that claims to classify faces as liars the rest of the statement is broadly true. An…

> It also says "By cross-checking everyone who enters the store against a database of identified shoplifters and unruly customers, facial recognition can detect and deter repeat offenders" and "Using facial recognition, retailers can know precisely when an employee arrives, takes breaks, and leaves for the day" Ofc you "can" - in principle. Is any of this currently being done, however?

What's your point here?

Re: AI is fundamentally ‘a surveillance technology’

#54

Post by johnnyworker »

jdthedisciple wrote: post #5

Does anybody know of a facial recognition AI that actually classifies faces as (non)-liars as she claims? Not sure about this take. You need data at the end of the day, to build good AI models. These days it feels like anyone's public takes are more or less just a means to promote their own cause. And I say this as a happy and long-time Signal user.

The point isn't whether those things are correct. They are used as tools of surveillance and oppression.

> These are ultimately surveillance systems that are being marketed to those who have power over us generally: our employers, governments, border control, etc., to make determinations and predictions that will shape our access to resources and opportunities.

And hey, the more arbitrary or even false something is, the more obedience you can demonstrate by going along with it just because computer said no, so that's another "bonus".

Here's a chilling real-life example:

https://www.politico.eu/article/dutch-scandal-serves-as-a-wa...

> In 2019 it was revealed that the Dutch tax authorities had used a self-learning algorithm to create risk profiles in an effort to spot child care benefits fraud.

> Authorities penalized families over a mere suspicion of fraud based on the system’s risk indicators. Tens of thousands of families — often with lower incomes or belonging to ethnic minorities — were pushed into poverty because of exorbitant debts to the tax agency. Some victims committed suicide. More than a thousand children were taken into foster care.

Let that sink in.

Re: AI is fundamentally ‘a surveillance technology’

#55

Post by nathias »

krapp wrote: post #46
falcor84 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not by definition. For example, radio broadcast isn't.

Definitions don't matter. The device I carry in my pocket is "defined" as a "smartphone" despite being a computer that just happens to have an app that simulates an archaic device called a "telephone" installed on it. It also provides convenient access for law enforcement to monitor all of my social media accounts and communications and metadata and scan my storage for contraband. Preferably with a warrant but of cou…

Your computer can spy on you. The web can spy on you. Your appliances can spy on you. Your car can spy on you. Your lightbulbs can spy on you.

but you don't need tech for that, a spy can spy on you

Re: AI is fundamentally ‘a surveillance technology’

#57

Post by [deleted] »

imgabe wrote: post #48

I think people do a disservice to their cause when they make semantic arguments like this. Isn't enough to say that AI can be used for enhanced surveillance by malicious actors? What does it mean to be a "surveillance technology"? Now you have people arguing about whether AI fits the definition of this made up term instead of talking about the potentially nefarious surveillance applications.

[deleted]

Re: AI is fundamentally ‘a surveillance technology’

#58

Post by nonrandomstring »

qp11 wrote: post #38
nologic01 wrote: post #31

> [AI] requires the surveillance business model I think this is putting the horse before the cart. There is no doubt that the surveillance business model has captured tech. But "AI" - which to me is just the shortest possible way to say "algorithmic processing of digital information" - is just one more category of tools exploited to buttress and expand the dominance of said business model. It just happens that while…

Scale requires Purpose. When there is no Purpose, or no Purpose that Everyone accepts, and yet things are mindlessly scaled up, the scaler makes enemies. And its all pure chaos what happens next.

Ubiquity is the materialised love-child of two other monsters, omnipotence and omniscience.

Whereas we recognise the pathological parents for what they are, we still think ubiquity is adorable.

Re: AI is fundamentally ‘a surveillance technology’

#60

Post by bayindirh »

michaelt wrote: post #27
jdthedisciple wrote: post #5

Does anybody know of a facial recognition AI that actually classifies faces as (non)-liars as she claims? Not sure about this take. You need data at the end of the day, to build good AI models. These days it feels like anyone's public takes are more or less just a means to promote their own cause. And I say this as a happy and long-time Signal user.

Well, the full quote from Whittaker is: > “You know, you walk past a facial recognition camera that’s instrumented with pseudo-scientific emotion recognition, and it produces data about you, right or wrong, that says ‘you are happy, you are sad, you have a bad character, you’re a liar, whatever.’ While I'm not aware of any technology that claims to classify faces as liars the rest of the statement is broadly true. An…

> don't shoplifters wear hats to keep their faces off CCTV?

I don't remember the name, but a defense company demonstrated a facial recognition software which identified the face while the person is running in the dark, in very low light (IIRC akin to a poorly lit harbor-like environment). The camera was shooting from the side, so the system saw the face for a couple of frames.

So, a small camera mounted to the entrance turnstile of a supermarket with a fairly lit environment can scan almost everyone going in. Are you wearing a balaclava in the store? It's also suspicious in most cases.

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