EE is working with Qualcomm to add Wi-Fi 7 to consumer broadband hubs • Hacker News Board

Re: EE is working with Qualcomm to add Wi-Fi 7 to consumer broadband hubs

#101

Post by zamadatix » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 11:49 PM UTC

dboreham wrote: post #70

throw0101c wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only way you’ll get > 1 GBPS on WiFi is on a device with 3x3 or 4x4 mimo WiFi. At 160 MHz 802.11ax (5 GHz) should be able to get 1200 Mbps at the PHY layer with a single spatial stream: * https://www.arubanetworks.com/assets/so/ReferenceGuide_80211... Two streams gets you 2400 Mbps (PHY).

And you have to divide the PHY symbol rate by 4 to get the real world TCP throughout achievable.

There is some loss but you shouldn't be getting anything near 4 unless something is very wrong with your wireless environment. Even a flat half is pretty bad. In a hospital environment our managed clients (i.e. laptops, phones, wireless desktops) in the 5 GHz space would reach more near ~80% theoretical.

Re: EE is working with Qualcomm to add Wi-Fi 7 to consumer broadband hubs

#102

Post by brigade » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 11:49 PM UTC

agloe_dreams wrote: post #9

What annoys me is this: I have a TMobile iPhone 15 Pro and three Erro Pro 6 units, all with wired backhaul. Over the wire, my fast.com results repeatedly reach ~1.2 Gigs. Over Wifi, from a foot away, my results are around 650Mbps. The local church recently had T-Mobile install a 5G antenna array around it. I'm about two blocks away. Over 5G, I get 1.4Gigs down, though my walls, through an entire house between us. But…

For wall penetration/distance, it's because 5G has better spectrum allocation and allowed transmit power than WiFi. For speed, it ultimately boils down to that massive, expensive antenna array (up to 256 antennas) enabling a higher practical spatial stream count than the 2-4 antennas typical WiFi base stations use to talk to client devices.

(2x2 is effectively the standard for WiFi clients; a 4-antenna access point can theoretically talk to two 2x2 devices at once, with lots of caveats. So even your Eero is likely to dedicate its 4x4 radio to backhaul and use its 2x2 radios for talking to clients. Which then means users are less likely to see any benefit from 4x4 in clients, so no one makes them, so access points keep optimizing for 2x2 clients, and on and on...)

Re: EE is working with Qualcomm to add Wi-Fi 7 to consumer broadband hubs

#103

Post by orev » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 12:00 AM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #38

I would rather have ethernet in every room and a less sophisticated/powerful wifi. It seems ethernet is fairly rare even in new construction.

The majority of consumer devices in a home are tablets, phones, TV sticks, etc that will never have an Ethernet connection, so there’s not really a strong demand for wired connections. It’s not worth wiring a new construction as it’s just not a selling point.

Most houses do have coax, which works great with MoCa if you want something wired.

Re: EE is working with Qualcomm to add Wi-Fi 7 to consumer broadband hubs

#104

Post by orev » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 12:03 AM UTC

martinald wrote: post #95

Maybe slightly off topic but does anyone know what's happening with powerline? It seems to have stalled out development in about 2015. G.Hn has came along but doesn't seem to offer speeds that are any better. I can get about 150mbit/sec on AV1200 adaptors and maybe double that on 300mbit/sec. It seems to me that if "WiFi 7" esque modulation techniques were used with powerline we could get far better speeds on it. For…

Powerline causes a lot of radio interference and is generally discouraged as much as possible. It should only be used as a last resort if nothing else works, including WiFi.

It’s much better to use MoCa over coax and setup WiFi APs.

Re: EE is working with Qualcomm to add Wi-Fi 7 to consumer broadband hubs

#105

Post by maurimo » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 12:05 AM UTC

EE user in the UK here. Instead of working for Wifi 7 could you please remove roaming charges in the EU, that EE suddenly reintroduced after brexit? You're telling us our future will have Wifi 7 but also roaming charges when I travel to the EU?

Re: EE is working with Qualcomm to add Wi-Fi 7 to consumer broadband hubs

#106

Post by brigade » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 12:29 AM UTC

throw0101c wrote: post #64

mastercheif wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s because iPhones (and all other smartphones) use 2x2 mimo WiFi arrays. The only way you’ll get > 1 GBPS on WiFi is on a device with 3x3 or 4x4 mimo WiFi. 2x2 is used because it’s less power intensive and takes up less physical space in the device.

> The only way you’ll get > 1 GBPS on WiFi is on a device with 3x3 or 4x4 mimo WiFi. At 160 MHz 802.11ax (5 GHz) should be able to get 1200 Mbps at the PHY layer with a single spatial stream: * https://www.arubanetworks.com/assets/so/ReferenceGuide_80211... Two streams gets you 2400 Mbps (PHY).

Both Eero and Apple only support 160 MHz channels in 6 GHz

Re: EE is working with Qualcomm to add Wi-Fi 7 to consumer broadband hubs

#107

Post by r00fus » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 12:37 AM UTC

RIMR wrote: post #49

The only thing that Wi-Fi 7 might solve right now is powerful local and ad-hoc data transfers. 48gbps would allow for SSD-like speeds over the air. On a home network, you could back up your entire laptop in a few minutes to a NAS. With ad-hoc you could film in raw 8K, and back up everything to a battery powered storage device in a backpack in real time, without needing to be tethered. It certainly isn't a worthless u…

WiFi adhoc speed increases are why most people don't complain about iPhones still using USB2 wire speeds. I wonder what the AirDrop speeds would be for a WiFi 7 enabled iPhone.

Re: EE is working with Qualcomm to add Wi-Fi 7 to consumer broadband hubs

#108

Post by cesarb » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 12:58 AM UTC

throw0101c wrote: post #12

The home upgrade that most folks need is a symmetrical fibre optic of some kind, with open-access [1] and either municipal [2] or non-profit at OSI Layer 1/2, with competition at OSI Layer 3. I think at this point 100Mbps would be the minimum, with diminishing returns once you start getting above 1Gbps (but available with XG(S)-PON(G.98(0)7)/NG-PON2(G.989)/HSP(G.9804) and 802.3ca). It was technically possible to wire…

> It was technically possible to wire up entire countries and continents for electricity and phone service, so I doubt there are any technical hurdles in doing the same with fibre.

Wiring up some places for electricity is really hard. I live in a huge country (Brazil) with a sprawling integrated electricity network, but there are still over a hundred small localities (source: https://www.ons.org.br/AcervoDigitalDocumentosEPublicacoes/R...) which are not yet connected to that network. Most of them are deep within the Amazon forest, a few are in a state (Roraima) which is separated from the rest by the Amazon forest (though that state used to have a connection to Venezuela's electricity network), and one is on an island (Fernando de Noronha) which is far enough from the continent that a submarine cable would not be easy.

Re: EE is working with Qualcomm to add Wi-Fi 7 to consumer broadband hubs

#109

Post by ksec » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 1:14 AM UTC

aeadio wrote: post #73

This article is completely inept. I'm nowhere near an expert in WiFi tech, but having done a lot of in-office WiFi setups over the past several years, it's easy to see the differences in quality generation over generation. > Trouble is, the woes listed in the messaging are those that previous versions of services and wireless standards claimed to fix. If they didn't fix them, why should we believe this lot will? If t…

Unsurprising but also sadly, WiFi 7 is like 5G, misunderstood and judging from this HN thread, most are commenting it is useless. They dont want to understand it, they dont read the spec either. I am not sure when did HN start becoming like this.

CPU, Wireless ( Wifi / 5G ), USB?, possibly every single hardware topic is the same.

Re: EE is working with Qualcomm to add Wi-Fi 7 to consumer broadband hubs

#110

Post by ksec » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 1:20 AM UTC

throw0101c wrote: post #12

The home upgrade that most folks need is a symmetrical fibre optic of some kind, with open-access [1] and either municipal [2] or non-profit at OSI Layer 1/2, with competition at OSI Layer 3. I think at this point 100Mbps would be the minimum, with diminishing returns once you start getting above 1Gbps (but available with XG(S)-PON(G.98(0)7)/NG-PON2(G.989)/HSP(G.9804) and 802.3ca). It was technically possible to wire…

There were never any technical difficulties with it. It was / is always about cost. And anything government lead will comes with politics.

We also have 5G Home Station in many places and those are fast becoming part of the broadband solution especially in rural area. ( So much about 5G being useless on HN )