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EE is working with Qualcomm to add Wi-Fi 7 to consumer broadband hubs

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Re: EE is working with Qualcomm to add Wi-Fi 7 to consumer broadband hubs

#91

Post by ac29 »

eximius wrote: post #52
ac29 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Higher bandwidth should also make connection more robust Nope. Higher bandwidth could mean two things: Larger channel size: larger channels have a higher noise floor and are are therefore less robust Faster throughput: Faster throughput generally means larger channels (as above) or various techniques to get more bits/Hz (such as more complex modulation), both of which are less robust

I think I read this somewhere but I am struggling to recall where, so hopefully I didn't dream this: I believe the larger channels are much, much larger and include adaptive techniques to dynamically exclude noisy regions within channel. It can afford to entirely sacrifice bands in this way because the channels are much larger.

Even in the absence of all anthropogenic RF noise, the noise floor on larger channels is higher. Specifically, I'm thinking of thermal noise: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson%E2%80%93Nyquist_noise

Re: EE is working with Qualcomm to add Wi-Fi 7 to consumer broadband hubs

#93

Post by rubatuga »

supertrope wrote: post #85
danaris wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm honestly struggling to come up with a use case for a single iPhone to need more than 300 megabytes per second (2.4Gbps) of bandwidth at any given time. (Noting that 8K video, in fairly un-optimized scenarios, appears to need about 96Mbps—just 12 megabytes per second, or 4% of that "low" bandwidth.) What are you doing, streaming raw, uncompressed video from multiple sources to a single iPhone? If you've got that m…

Faster link speed allows the Wi-Fi radio to finish transmission faster and go to sleep prolonging battery life. TCP throughput is about half of the link rate. iPhones before the 15 Pro maxed out at 1200 Mbps link rate because they are 2x2 MIMO with 80 MHz max channel banwdidth.

There may be diminishing returns on watts per bit, something that 10gbe Ethernet is not great at.

Re: EE is working with Qualcomm to add Wi-Fi 7 to consumer broadband hubs

#94

Post by qwertywert_ »

throw0101c wrote: post #64
mastercheif wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s because iPhones (and all other smartphones) use 2x2 mimo WiFi arrays. The only way you’ll get > 1 GBPS on WiFi is on a device with 3x3 or 4x4 mimo WiFi. 2x2 is used because it’s less power intensive and takes up less physical space in the device.

> The only way you’ll get > 1 GBPS on WiFi is on a device with 3x3 or 4x4 mimo WiFi. At 160 MHz 802.11ax (5 GHz) should be able to get 1200 Mbps at the PHY layer with a single spatial stream: * https://www.arubanetworks.com/assets/so/ReferenceGuide_80211... Two streams gets you 2400 Mbps (PHY).

https://mcsindex.com/

1200 is for 2x2 at 80MHz which is the max theoretical an Iphone can get.

Also other comment is wrong about dividing by 4, usually can expect 0.66 of max phy rate. So just under 1Gbps.

Re: EE is working with Qualcomm to add Wi-Fi 7 to consumer broadband hubs

#95

Post by martinald »

Maybe slightly off topic but does anyone know what's happening with powerline?

It seems to have stalled out development in about 2015. G.Hn has came along but doesn't seem to offer speeds that are any better. I can get about 150mbit/sec on AV1200 adaptors and maybe double that on 300mbit/sec.

It seems to me that if "WiFi 7" esque modulation techniques were used with powerline we could get far better speeds on it. For example 8x8 MIMO (AV2000 uses 2x2), with perhaps a larger frequency band would enable multigigabit over powerline?

Re: EE is working with Qualcomm to add Wi-Fi 7 to consumer broadband hubs

#96

Post by BenjiWiebe »

martinald wrote: post #95

Maybe slightly off topic but does anyone know what's happening with powerline? It seems to have stalled out development in about 2015. G.Hn has came along but doesn't seem to offer speeds that are any better. I can get about 150mbit/sec on AV1200 adaptors and maybe double that on 300mbit/sec. It seems to me that if "WiFi 7" esque modulation techniques were used with powerline we could get far better speeds on it. For…

I don't think you can do MIMO with wired stuff. Isn't it using multiple paths/polarizations to get more bandwidth? You can't do that with wired unless you run more wires.

Anyways there's a lot more differences between how a wired protocol works and how a wireless protocol works. Mostly not interchangeable.

Re: EE is working with Qualcomm to add Wi-Fi 7 to consumer broadband hubs

#97

Post by [deleted] »

dboreham wrote: post #70
throw0101c wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only way you’ll get > 1 GBPS on WiFi is on a device with 3x3 or 4x4 mimo WiFi. At 160 MHz 802.11ax (5 GHz) should be able to get 1200 Mbps at the PHY layer with a single spatial stream: * https://www.arubanetworks.com/assets/so/ReferenceGuide_80211... Two streams gets you 2400 Mbps (PHY).

And you have to divide the PHY symbol rate by 4 to get the real world TCP throughout achievable.

[deleted]

Re: EE is working with Qualcomm to add Wi-Fi 7 to consumer broadband hubs

#98

Post by r00fus »

throw0101c wrote: post #64
mastercheif wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s because iPhones (and all other smartphones) use 2x2 mimo WiFi arrays. The only way you’ll get > 1 GBPS on WiFi is on a device with 3x3 or 4x4 mimo WiFi. 2x2 is used because it’s less power intensive and takes up less physical space in the device.

> The only way you’ll get > 1 GBPS on WiFi is on a device with 3x3 or 4x4 mimo WiFi. At 160 MHz 802.11ax (5 GHz) should be able to get 1200 Mbps at the PHY layer with a single spatial stream: * https://www.arubanetworks.com/assets/so/ReferenceGuide_80211... Two streams gets you 2400 Mbps (PHY).

2400Mbps = 300 MB (megabytes)/s x2 = 600MB/s which is pretty close to the number the OP was stating. So to get over 1GB/s you need more than 2x2, right?

Re: EE is working with Qualcomm to add Wi-Fi 7 to consumer broadband hubs

#99

Post by zamadatix »

qwertywert_ wrote: post #94
throw0101c wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only way you’ll get > 1 GBPS on WiFi is on a device with 3x3 or 4x4 mimo WiFi. At 160 MHz 802.11ax (5 GHz) should be able to get 1200 Mbps at the PHY layer with a single spatial stream: * https://www.arubanetworks.com/assets/so/ReferenceGuide_80211... Two streams gets you 2400 Mbps (PHY).

https://mcsindex.com/ 1200 is for 2x2 at 80MHz which is the max theoretical an Iphone can get. Also other comment is wrong about dividing by 4, usually can expect 0.66 of max phy rate. So just under 1Gbps.

With the iPad and MacBook Apple added 160 MHz support for 6E only (not on 5 GHz still, which makes sense). Did they really not do that with the new iPhone 15 Pro as well? A bit disappointing really.

Re: EE is working with Qualcomm to add Wi-Fi 7 to consumer broadband hubs

#100

Post by zamadatix »

r00fus wrote: post #98
throw0101c wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only way you’ll get > 1 GBPS on WiFi is on a device with 3x3 or 4x4 mimo WiFi. At 160 MHz 802.11ax (5 GHz) should be able to get 1200 Mbps at the PHY layer with a single spatial stream: * https://www.arubanetworks.com/assets/so/ReferenceGuide_80211... Two streams gets you 2400 Mbps (PHY).

2400Mbps = 300 MB (megabytes)/s x2 = 600MB/s which is pretty close to the number the OP was stating. So to get over 1GB/s you need more than 2x2, right?

I supposed that depends if you interpret GBPS as someone holding shift or someone really meaning to express network speeds in bytes and just happens to capitalize the rest too. But yeah, to get over 1 GB/s (or 8 Gbps) you'd need more than a 2x2 setup even with the massive 320 MHz channels Wi-Fi 7 is going to bring.
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