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LARPing and Violent Extremism

leb.fbi.gov

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Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#151

Post by Jensson »

sonotathrowaway wrote: post #150
Jensson wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, this is a right vs left wing issue in USA? Explains the very low quality and very tribal discussions here. I thought this was about privacy and government overreach and in those threads the discussions are much better, but apparently all of that goes out the window when you add tribal conflicts...

Republicans endorse political violence when it’s targeted against their political opponents - the plot to kidnap and execute the Michigan governor was “just a joke” (the perpetrators have been convicted and are currently incarcerated).

And seems like Democrats endorse police overreach when it is targeted against their political opponents, since it is them who are all over this thread saying basically "nothing to hide, nothing to fear". I wonder where all of those are in the typical police threads? ACAB except when cops did something I like, then it is "trust the cops to interpret this correctly!"?

Politics is tiring for that reason, most people lose their rational thinking ability when that gets involved, and to an outsider all of it just looks like insanity.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#153

Post by faeriechangling »

kr0bat wrote: post #10

They used the term LARP a lot more literally than I expected. Although the history of LARP as a legal defense is narrow, the authors share the concern that it may soon become commonplace. Early attempts at such a strategy have been made by a defendant acting alone or in loose cooperation with members of a fantasy group who knew each other only in the virtual world, claiming “artistic expression” to excuse threatening…

Well fuck the feds for snooping on all our conversations honestly. When we don't have privacy, people collectively engaging in edgy irony to the point you can't distinguish the signal from the noise provides people with a level of free speech.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#154

Post by ajhurliman »

sonotathrowaway wrote: post #149
DiabloD3 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blackmail, lying, misinformation, manipulation, and gaslighting: the tools of an undercover FBI agent.

When conservatives are used to feeling privileged, equality feels like oppression.

Right back atcha

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#155

Post by pstuart »

RelativeDelta wrote: post #133
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it seem to be growing and is a huge threat in numeric comparison to other negative outcomes because the quantity is actually rapidly increasing or because the media and government are beating a drum about this issue louder than about other issues, regardless of quantitative changes in risk and absolute risk?

It's both. VEs are increasing in number and sophistication over time because the social contract of the United States has been cleaved. On one side you have individualistic capitalists who don't want to be told what to do and don't want to subsidize the existence of others. On the other you have communal idealists who recognize the scale advantage state actions and programs can have and want to deploy them. The later…

We tried secession before and it didn't work out too well, and I don't see anything indicating it would be better this time.

Edit: my understanding is that the leading idea is not secession but something called Project 2025. Depending on how you look at it, it's either a "rightsizing" of government or a coup.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#156

Post by pixl97 »

Jensson wrote: post #92
text0404 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What motivation do they have to do this? Are you talking about, like, Civil War re-enactors? Pretty sure the police aren't going to roll up on some dudes in wigs and toy bayonets in a park. Those people usually get permits for that kind of thing anyways. If you're part of a group with a manifesto, ordering weapons and explosives and doing practice drills to take down the US government, then yeah... it's highly likely…

> If you're part of a group with a manifesto, ordering weapons and explosives and doing practice drills to take down the US government, then yeah... it's highly likely that the feds are going to pay attention. And in those cases the "I was just LARPing" defense already doesn't work. This document will not help catch criminals since in clear cases they are already caught, all it does is raise more suspicion against ge…

>: will not help catch criminals since in clear cases they are already caught

??? Yea, I can tell you've never actually worked around any real life investigations before.

The difficulty with any real life situation is in a large enough group there will be some portion of the 'fakers' that are actually really motivated to commit illegal actions.

Even online this issue occurs with forms that mock the stupidity of other groups, flat earthers being a great example. If left unchecked a forum can turn from satire to true believers.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#157

Post by throwaway128128 »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #70

Although the history of LARP as a legal defense is narrow, the authors share the concern that it may soon become commonplace. This is a reasonable concern. I will note anecdotally not all role players are playing with a full deck -- though I am more familiar with role playing gamers, not LARPers (granted: not entirely separate groups). Some are mildly cracked, sometimes harmlessly -- the guy who exclusively played fe…

The FBI is concerned more with the militia-like "tacticool" style of LARPing.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#158

Post by pixl97 »

ethbr1 wrote: post #76
Karunamon wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another way to phrase that first sentence is "assumption of innocence". And while random commentators on the internet are not obligated to honor it, law enforcement is supposed to.

This document is seemingly targeted on the investigation phase, before a charge has been filed, to distinguish what characteristics legitimate LARPing may have vs militia claims-of-LARPing. Presumption of innocence does not extend to the initiation of an investigation, but comes into play with increasingly invasive methods (and ultimately, charges). US law enforcement is empowered to initiate duck investigations on t…

Yea, this entire thread really tells me that most people on HN have absolutely zero experience with the investigation phase of law enforcement.

If your in some group that reenacts pointing weapons at each other, or coming up with idea on how to blow up buildings and you have someone overhear this and report it, law enforcement themselves have no idea if you're the real thing our not (statistically, no your not, but investigators deal with outliers all day every day). If there is some kind of audio or video evidence saying something actionable (even though it may be pretend) and that gets in front of a judge, expect a warrant to get issued to tap into just about every part of your life.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#159

Post by ToValueFunfetti »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #146
foota wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess your best bet would be to have someone design a fictional bank to rob.

Yeah, if people who want to LARP as bank robbers could be paired with people who want to LARP as bankers, tellers, and cops, that could be an answer to the incipient commercial real-estate crisis. Just a matter of getting the right people in the same room together.

I would pay money for this, but probably not as much as it would cost (assuming that people who want to LARP as bankers/tellers and can't get those jobs don't really exist).

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#160

Post by falcolas »

leereeves wrote: post #119
falcolas wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But LARPing shouldn't be an excuse for people who want to don real tactical gear and weapons and plan mayhem. Just saw a video talking a bit facetiously about this. The question is, "What's the difference between Paintball and LARPing?" Dressing up and using made-up names and speaking specialized terminology and engaging in make-believe combat... They decided there is no difference. (This could just as easily be ai…

I'd say paintball is like fencing. The actions are real, but the consequences are minimized by the equipment. I don't know much about LARPing but I have the impression that the actions there aren't real, just people saying things like "I strike at thee", "I parry and riposte" while pantomiming in slow motion. Wouldn't it be easy to tell a fencing duel from a LARP swordfight?

FWIW, compared to real sword fights, fencing (as practiced in the Olympics et.al.) isn’t generally considered to be “real”. Points scored from tapping toes, foils which bend unrealistically, artificially constrained movements, one winner when both stabbed each other milliseconds apart…

But to your point, yes, most amateur sports could be boiled down to a form of LARPing given enough twisting.

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