The, "its just a joke, bro" defence applied to an organized uprising.
Schrodinger’s bullying
LARPing and Violent Extremism
61–70 of 230 posts
Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism
#62I was definitely confused by this article at first, thinking it was some silly guide for law enforcement which can't tell the difference between criminals and LARPers...?? But no -- it's actually about terrorists and criminals trying to claim in court that their criminal planning wasn't that at all, but just LARPing: > For example, after Kaleb Franks was arrested in October 2020 for plotting to abduct Michigan Govern…
It isn't just courts, these are for police officers in general, they say it near the top "which may be helpful to both law enforcement and prosecutors if suspects of targeted violence claim they were playacting". These standards will likely make officers go after more genuine LARPers than before. These tips are very problematic if police officers start to follow them, for example: > Role players will not discuss law…
You're looking at this from an assumption-of-LARPing.
Imagine an FBI agent looking at evidence of Timothy McVeigh at a gun show in 1994. He's selling a flare gun he claims can 'shoot down an ATF helicopter' and ATF hats with bullet holes in them.
When interviewed without charge, imagine McVeigh claims that it's part of his LARPing activities.
What standards would you suggest that agent applies, in order to avoid a false negative?
Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism
#63It is very scary to read such an "opinion" pieces on fbi.gov domain. First, they make it possible to connect any organized activity to "violent extremism". And then this: > Meetings may entail impassioned rhetoric and rehearsal of tactical operations for the ultimate future apocalypse when citizens will overtake the government or institute their own community policing. This quote is fucking insane, imo. "citizens wil…
The article also contains >> [recommendations to probe and challenge] motives during an interview (e.g., “If you were just LARPing, why did you need live explosives?”)
If you're just larping why do you need a cannon?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXtswMYlBd0&pp=ygUPQ2l2aWwgd2F...
Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism
#64I was definitely confused by this article at first, thinking it was some silly guide for law enforcement which can't tell the difference between criminals and LARPers...?? But no -- it's actually about terrorists and criminals trying to claim in court that their criminal planning wasn't that at all, but just LARPing: > For example, after Kaleb Franks was arrested in October 2020 for plotting to abduct Michigan Govern…
The blatant lying that law enforcement has to deal with on a daily basis is uderappreciated. The US has a legal system that permits a defendant to say many things, like "My buddies and I were participating in a fantasy scenario where we plotted in detail and collected supplies to kidnap the governor of our state... but it was just a game. Like those other people who play games!" Good for the authors in making an effo…
> The US has a legal system that permits a defendant to say many things, like "My buddies and I were participating in a fantasy scenario where we plotted in detail and collected supplies to kidnap the governor of our state... but it was just a game. Like those other people who play games!"
You can even get acquitted for it because it turned out that the FBI was the dungeon master all along: https://chicago.suntimes.com/columnists/2022/4/13/23023950/m...
Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
It isn't just courts, these are for police officers in general, they say it near the top "which may be helpful to both law enforcement and prosecutors if suspects of targeted violence claim they were playacting". These standards will likely make officers go after more genuine LARPers than before. These tips are very problematic if police officers start to follow them, for example: > Role players will not discuss law…
You're looking at this from an assumption-of-LARPing. Imagine an FBI agent looking at evidence of Timothy McVeigh at a gun show in 1994. He's selling a flare gun he claims can 'shoot down an ATF helicopter' and ATF hats with bullet holes in them. When interviewed without charge, imagine McVeigh claims that it's part of his LARPing activities. What standards would you suggest that agent applies, in order to avoid a fa…
Another way to phrase that first sentence is "assumption of innocence". And while random commentators on the internet are not obligated to honor it, law enforcement is supposed to.
Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
The blatant lying that law enforcement has to deal with on a daily basis is uderappreciated. The US has a legal system that permits a defendant to say many things, like "My buddies and I were participating in a fantasy scenario where we plotted in detail and collected supplies to kidnap the governor of our state... but it was just a game. Like those other people who play games!" Good for the authors in making an effo…
The blatant lying from law enforcement that the citizenry has to deal with on a daily basis is underappreciated. The US has a legal system that permits a police office to say anything, but a citizen must not lie to a police officer. The Miranda warning is not a good sign - it reminds the citizen that the government can and will use anything a citizen says for its own purposes.
That's a weird way of looking at the Fifth Amendment.
You have the right to say nothing.
Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
> users pretend to have fantasies about taking officer's service weapon. Why is this a trend...
If I had to guess I would saynpart of the intrusive-thoughts/OCD/impulse-control community. I've seen similar about swerving into oncoming traffic or walking off a ledge.
Intrisive thoughts are fairly common, and not related to a specific community or exclusive to any identifiable subgroup:
> These thoughts are part of being human, and need not ruin the quality of life. Treatment is available when the thoughts are associated with OCD and become persistent, severe, or distressing.
> One example of an aggressive intrusive thought is the high place phenomenon, the sudden urge to jump from a high place. A 2011 study assessed the prevalence of this phenomenon among US college students; it found that even among those participants with no history of suicidal ideation, over 50% had experienced an urge to jump or imagined themselves jumping from a high place at least once. A 2020 study carried out in Germany reported similar results.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrusive_thought#Aggressive_t...
Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism
#68I was definitely confused by this article at first, thinking it was some silly guide for law enforcement which can't tell the difference between criminals and LARPers...?? But no -- it's actually about terrorists and criminals trying to claim in court that their criminal planning wasn't that at all, but just LARPing: > For example, after Kaleb Franks was arrested in October 2020 for plotting to abduct Michigan Govern…
To add a counterpoint, that specific example is really a poor choice to get the point across. It’s been established (https://www.insider.com/kidnapping-conspiracy-whitmer-fbi-in...) that the Whitmer plot was run by the FBI itself, in a way having agents LARPing as terrorists.
Also, I would hope the real LARPing community can feel safe enough to share tips on what to do if they run into police while running around the woods with foam swords.
Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
And those will now think that LARPers who want privacy are terrorists? I don't see how this is a good way to separate LARPing from terrorism. It is scary to think that law enforcement thinks that people who want privacy are terrorists.
This is not "find larpers, check privacy, find crime" Its "find crime, they claim larping, check behavior to verify"
The whole point is to tell the difference between "find larpers" and "find crime", so the rest of those points doesn't say anything. They found some people who did something suspicious, that is point 1, the next step is this document to help tell the difference.
Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism
#70Although the history of LARP as a legal defense is narrow, the authors share the concern that it may soon become commonplace.
This is a reasonable concern.
I will note anecdotally not all role players are playing with a full deck -- though I am more familiar with role playing gamers, not LARPers (granted: not entirely separate groups). Some are mildly cracked, sometimes harmlessly -- the guy who exclusively played female characters and might have identified as trans had he been born later -- and some not so harmlessly -- the gal who forged her own sword which she took with her everywhere, even the mall, by concealing it under a cape, and genuinely believed she was the last special warrior of some sort from a fictional series.* She believed she was female to signify she was the last.
So that may complicate sorting out who is just playing games from who is a genuine threat of planned violence.