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Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

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Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#321

Post by eviks »

mid-kid wrote: post #237
DebtDeflation wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surprised it didn't mention the lack of a "Delete" key (at least in the standard Android keyboard). All that is provided is Backspace. On the desktop, I use Delete and Backspace equally, depending on where my cursor happens to be.

Can't speak for everyone but it took me a decade of computer usage to even "fit" the delete key in my text editing workflow and getting used to reaching for it. I still don't use it much, and it doesn't help that it's hard to reach on laptops and not simply shift+backspace. I think of the delete key as a power-user feature.

Hard to reach keys can be rebound too easy to reach, eg you can have

right alt + h to backspace right alt + g to delete

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#322

Post by robinson7d »

fragmede wrote: post #254
robinson7d wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iPhone mini was a thing for a while. It still has the stuck out camera but otherwise only a bit larger than the iPhone 5 from 9 years earlier. I wish they hadn’t ended it on the 13, because I also feel phones are getting too large.

Or, there just isn't the market for a current gen mini and an SE.

That’s for sure why it was discontinued. I’m sad it’s gone, but I do understand I’m a minority in that feeling.

I was just offering it as a counter point (from as recent as last year) to the onscreen keyboards necessitating huge phones that the comment I replied to was suggesting. Plus an option that is still modern enough to use. Using the mini keyboard isn’t much worse than the pro. It’s feasible, these minis type well, I don’t think it’s the reason for bigger, thinner phones with cameras popping out. I’d blame content more.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#323

Post by prng2021 »

superkuh wrote: post #49

Nothing on mobile is okay. I know everyone loves their smart phones but they really are terrible computers in every way except for portability. Use a computer when you actually want to do things. Smartphones are just for when you're literally unable to use a real computer.

What an absolutely lazy assessment of technology. I’d say using those two appendages we call legs to move around while still being able to do many things you use a desktop computer for is a revolutionary piece of technology.

Do you really want to carry a Walkman around along with a backpack with a Rand McNally map to guide you so you don’t get lost in a neighborhood you’ve never visited? Maybe watch a portable DVD player on your way to/from work on the subway to pass the time? Carry some quarters so you can call someone at a pay phone or pay for a parking spot?

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#324

Post by spondylosaurus »

ghusto wrote: post #261
superkuh wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason I think it won't get much better is that the size of smart phones will not change. It is size that's really the issue for text editing. No space for a real keyboard, no space for a real display.

I remember the first Android phone. It was small, and had a real keyboard. It's not that it can't be done, it's that it's cheaper to not have one, and they can get away with it because of the lowest common denominator consumer.

The G1! (Or HTC Dream, depending on your locale.) It had a keyboard, touchscreen, and a trackball to boot.

You weren't kidding about it being small, though—in hindsight the 320 x 480 screen resolution was a bit rough.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#325

Post by eviks »

dheera wrote: post #268
plaidfuji wrote: post #57

1000% agree with this post, wow. I can’t believe this is controversial.. it’s a disaster. I dread opening the mobile version of google docs, sheets, or even Notes for anything more than a grocery list. The problem is the target audience for this is business customers, and particularly those in management, so it’s a small market. ICs aren’t up and down as much between meetings and can largely stick to their desktop se…

> I dread opening the mobile version of google docs, sheets, or even Notes for anything more than a grocery list. I dread it even for grocery lists. For one the apps (Notion, Google Docs, you name it) all give me a stupid splash screen when I tap them, and I have to wait 5-10 seconds to see content. We're in 2023. Splash screens should be unnecessary. Opening a piece of text should take no more than 50ms after the ta…

We've had this device for many years, you're just using bloated apps

Just tested Simplenote on a very old phone, reopens immediately in the list and I can type/check mark items right away (though first open takes longer) Apple notes is also snappy

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#326

Post by iainmerrick »

Whenever I explain my research at Google into mobile text editing, I’m usually met with blank stares [...long and detailed description of the problems and how their research attempts to solve them...] Unfortunately, shipping something like Eloquent would be challenging.

What a strange attitude to take! What’s the point of the research if it’s not aimed at shipping anything?

Hopefully this is just a miscommunication and isn’t meant to be as passive-aggressive as it sounds.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#327

Post by graycat »

"Editing"? My most important computing application is KEdit, a terrific text editor.

Mobile? Since it seemed like highly inferior computing, I delayed getting one. Finally I did. Tried to do some little thing, and for four hours the fake keyboard came and went for no good reason, several times had to power off the device and log in again.

Conclusion: I hate that mobile device.

Result: I put the thing in a Faraday cage envelope and put that in a box in my car. I hope never to use it. My only intended use is to contact 911 in an emergency, and I hope never to have one of those.

To me, mobile is a big step backwards and very unwelcome.

I'm putting up with Windows 10 Home Edition but ASAP returning to Windows 7 Professional. Most important application -- KEdit.

Theme in computing: Mostly just text, in files, in the Windows hierarchical file system. Next, macros for KEdit. Next, command line scripts in Rexx. Next, software in the Microsoft .NET version of Visual Basic.

Main use of computing: My startup and its Web site. I have the Web site code, 100,000 lines of typing, all from KEdit, all in .NET Visual Basic, running, apparently as intended.

Latest Irritation from Mobile: Wanted to order some Chinese food for pick up. Used their Web site. The site assumed I had a mobile phone. So, couldn't order via the site and had to call the Chinese restaurant and give me order to a person, item by item.

The assumption of mobile for the Web site ruined the on-line ordering and much of the site.

The site was complicated and in the end all they needed was one page of HTML. That one page could easily be plenty good, and even a static page would be better.

Good example of computing and a Web site: Hacker News!!!!!

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#328

Post by jstarfish »

fragmede wrote: post #279
ako wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think screen size is the limiting factor when editing, but the lack of a convenient keyboard. I’ve edited quite large texts with a Bluetooth keyboard connected to my phone. Currently have a Nuphy air 75 and keychron k15 pro, small sized, mechanical, ergonomic Bluetooth keyboards, both make editing pretty acceptable.

But then you need a table or some sort of surface to put the keyboard on, and then I might as well use my laptop if I have it. I want better editing for when I'm standing in line at the grocery store with one hand free. I have a keyboard that I've attached a guitar strap to, in order to be able to type while standing, without a table to rest the keyboard on.

You reinvented...the keytar.

I miss the Sidekick, myself. Was the perfect device for writing while standing. Physical keyboard and a big-ish screen, with the form of a modern smartphone.

The swivel design made finding a decent case tough though. And there were few apps.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#329

Post by whycome »

crazygringo wrote: post #154
failuser wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use that for selection as well, tap somewhere else on the keyboard. Used to be even better with 3D Touch, you did not have to wait for the long press to register.

Holy crap. I've been using the space bar for years to move the cursor, I had no idea you could select with it too. Thank you! It's even officially documented as well [1]. I wonder if selection was introduced when the spacebar cursor was, or if it was later. [1] https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/type-with-the-onscree...

Super great. Doesn't work on gboard. Why isn't a period and comma a default on these keyboards??

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#330

Post by logbiscuitswave »

There’s a lot here I agree with. I dread text entry on iOS and it never seems to get that much better. It seems in many ways to have regressed in iOS 17 as well with things like invisible/near zero contrast text selection, hit detection being generally broken, it likes to super aggressively interpret taps anywhere near a word as me wanting to select a word when I’m just trying to reposition the cursor (and generally a word that’s not even close), and all kinds of other annoyances and friction.

But in addition the keyboards just don’t seem to be very good. I can’t tell you for how long now I’ve been infuriated by entering a search in iOS Safari only to have every word separated by a ‘.’ because of how it overloads the right edge of the to have a period right where my thumb likes to go.

I’ve tried numerous third party keyboards and they are all some sort of combination of “bad”, so I always end up going back to the built-in one after a while.

These are all far from solved problems, it’s just that it seems like a lot of people are so accustomed to the friction that it just seems like one of those inevitable things.

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