So what is the language that has the same word/phrase for MothersSiblingsDaughter and FathersSistersDaughter (but presumably not FathersBrothersDaughter)?
LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter
191–200 of 276 posts
Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, this is a modern post Industrial Revolution phenomenon. In the distant past, when you met someone new, they asked who you are in relation to your tribe and family. Now, they ask what you do for the economy as an economic unit. It’s fun to rebel against the current culture by asking someone who they are instead of what they do.
Something I find sad about this is that many people really don’t know how to think about themselves in that context; in this way we aren’t a someone to other people so much as a something. I know this isn’t a firm rule, but there are many people in my life who I’m certain wouldn’t have a good grasp of how they fit into their family and community beyond fairly superficial platitudes. Maybe this has been true in the pa…
Back then almost everyone was a peasant so you wouldn't get any information about their interests, social status, etc. from just their career like you (somewhat) do now.
Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can't tell if this is serious. I don't even know which language you're using but it is literally no different than mom's mom and dad's mom other than a space.
It is Norwegian. And it is serious. And I am not saying the concept doesn't exist, only that as far as I am aware there is no usable everyday word for it. I mean: nobody will tell their kids they are going to visit dads mum and dads dad next week, rather than telling them they are going to visit grandma and granddad "across the country" or something?
Things like this can be highly family-specific. A friend of mine (German) says that in his family, his grandmothers are distinguished as "Oma" and "Omi". Which are both generic German words for any grandmother, but in his family, they are more specific. Like names. Another friend, they used "Oma" and "Großmutter" (a third generic word) to distinguish the two.
So there must certainly be families in the English-speaking world where kids commonly say "dad's dad" and "mom's dad". Even when unlike in Scandinavian languages, it's not the canonical form.
Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter
#194For someone on Android - why do they have these constants at all? If people need to add metadata to remember who their contacts are, why not free text field?
Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter
#195Responding to a variety of questions made over the years about this: This is a constant intended to be displayed after localizing the constant . Its localized value will primarily be displayed to users whose preferred languages have a short word describing the relationship. But it ALSO needs at least some comprehensible localization in EVERY language, because I can send you a vcard for myself labeling this specific t…
> The constant embeds everything that an English-speaking localizer needs to explain the relationship in a different language. That’s why something like the [proposal] (just use the Chinese name for this relationship) would not be an improvement. I don't exactly agree. Note that this constant embeds two terms, exactly because this particular kinship term does not distinguish them. In the other word this constant can…
> this particular kinship term does not distinguish them
Then why not call it CNLabelContactRelationYoungerCousinParentsSiblingsDaughter ?
Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter
#196Earlier quoted context omitted.
None of the categories really describe common Anglophonic kinship terminology. Eskimo is probably the closest, but flattens/simplifies it quite a bit.
Yes, English is considered to have an Eskimo kinship system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eskimo_kinship
Sure, I could logically make that connection. But I guess comparing it to something like Nigerian where all friends/family of an equal level are "brother"/"sister" or higher level "aunty"/"uncle", it seems weird to see English flattened so much. The language is specific to level (grand), node depth (x removed) and colinears (brother, sister, cousin, 2nd cousin, etc) that you can accurately describe pretty much any lineage.
When you compare it like that, it gets the author's point across even better to show how the language and culture play into each other. That being that anglophone cultures are very cold/distant to the importance of family on your life, outside of social convention (and how important that structure/convention is); while others (Hawaiian or Nigerian, for instance) treat family as a fluid and inviting unit of kinship.
You see this in the more "warm cultured" English regions (a good chunk of the US, Australia, etc) where it's common to refer to family friends as "aunt"/"uncle", or "cousin"; almost in defiance of the linguistic history.
In other words, I think the topic is fascinating and deserves even more depth compared to how it was broken down there.
Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter
#197Of possible interest to HNers, kinship terminology of different cultures is a subject that has a very elegant taxonomy. It was a major line of inquiry in early modern sociology, which tried to link other attributes of how societies were structured to how they named relations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinship_terminology
Yes, this is a modern post Industrial Revolution phenomenon. In the distant past, when you met someone new, they asked who you are in relation to your tribe and family. Now, they ask what you do for the economy as an economic unit. It’s fun to rebel against the current culture by asking someone who they are instead of what they do.
"rebel against the current culture"
No, I think it's more fun to rebel against the older culture of inbred villages and oppressive tradition
Yes thanks, judge me by what I do, not because some and some other people I barely care about
Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter
#198Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The constant embeds everything that an English-speaking localizer needs to explain the relationship in a different language. That’s why something like the [proposal] (just use the Chinese name for this relationship) would not be an improvement. I don't exactly agree. Note that this constant embeds two terms, exactly because this particular kinship term does not distinguish them. In the other word this constant can…
> this particular kinship term does not distinguish them Then why not call it CNLabelContactRelationYoungerCousinParentsSiblingsDaughter ?
I'm not sure the actual translator would be able to connect that label constant to the Chinese term 表妹.
Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
Paternal grandmother, paternal grandfather, maternal grandmother, and maternal grandfather
There is a big difference, though. In English you would usually say grandma/grandpa and rarely qualify by on which side. In Swedish and Norwegian you always specify because the words for grandparents are inherent specific to whether they are paternal or maternal.
In everyday speech you generally do not try to be this specific, but if you wanted to (e.g. recounting family history to a doctor or talking about the relationship between your parents and granparents) you could use them to be more specific in a clear way.
I agree that almost every use of farfar should be simply translated as grandmother.
Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter
#200Earlier quoted context omitted.
are there multiple languages that have this exact relationship concept? because if it’s in a single language or family of languages, the idea that it can be translates into something generic seems questionable
Urdu has even more discretization. Transliterated into latin characters * Mother's brother = mamoo * Mother's sister = khala * Father's older brother = Taaya * Father's younger brother = Chacho * Father's sister = Phupo Each of these's spouse also has a corresponding word. For example, Father's sister's husband will be Phupa. Then, their children are identified with a suffix. Mother's brother's son = Mamoo zaad bhai…
Adding further to the confusion in Urdu speaking areas when the cousin/mothers' relatives becomes your wife?