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LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter

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Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter

#151

Post by blablablerg »

Agentlien wrote: post #147
oceanghost wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't speak Armenian, but I dated an Armenian woman once, and she told me they have words for familial relationships that we didn't really have concepts for in English.

In Swedish our words for many relationships follow a very simple system of composing relationships. A few examples: Mor = mother Far = father Bror = brother Morfar = mother's father Farfar = father's father Farmor = father's mother Farfar = father's father Farbror = father's brother Morbror = mother's brother ...

Brorbror.. your brother's brother?

Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter

#152

Post by yongjik »

conductr wrote: post #135
mynegation wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you squint hard enough - yes. I do not know if it is Sapir-Whorf, but if I grew up using completely different words for sisters of my spouse, brothers of my spouse, husband of my sister, and wife of my brother, they do not look that similar to me.

But you understand they’re all referring to aunts and uncles of your children

That's not very convincing. My mother and my mother-in-law are both grandma to my children, but I doubt many languages use the same word for them.

Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter

#153

Post by bobbylarrybobby »

gweinberg wrote: post #104
SilasX wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And don’t forget the kink that, in Breaking Bad, Walt uses the term to refer to his spouse’s sibling’s husband.

Think about it this way: your brother in law is your child's uncle.

Only if all of your children are with the same spouse.

Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter

#154

Post by eitland »

hervature wrote: post #149
eitland wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am fairly sure English doesn't have (or at least does not use) separate everyday words for farmor/farfar (fathers mother / fathers mother) or mormor/morfar (same for mothers parents). Sure in academic language there is probably a way to describe it (edit: and the concept is easy to explain) but there is nothing quick that you can use to tell a kid so they immediately know which of the grandparents we are going to v…

I can't tell if this is serious. I don't even know which language you're using but it is literally no different than mom's mom and dad's mom other than a space.

It is Norwegian. And it is serious.

And I am not saying the concept doesn't exist, only that as far as I am aware there is no usable everyday word for it.

I mean: nobody will tell their kids they are going to visit dads mum and dads dad next week, rather than telling them they are going to visit grandma and granddad "across the country" or something?

Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter

#155

Post by abdullahkhalids »

jes5199 wrote: post #120
mercutio2 wrote: post #105

Responding to a variety of questions made over the years about this: This is a constant intended to be displayed after localizing the constant . Its localized value will primarily be displayed to users whose preferred languages have a short word describing the relationship. But it ALSO needs at least some comprehensible localization in EVERY language, because I can send you a vcard for myself labeling this specific t…

are there multiple languages that have this exact relationship concept? because if it’s in a single language or family of languages, the idea that it can be translates into something generic seems questionable

Urdu has even more discretization. Transliterated into latin characters

* Mother's brother = mamoo

* Mother's sister = khala

* Father's older brother = Taaya

* Father's younger brother = Chacho

* Father's sister = Phupo

Each of these's spouse also has a corresponding word. For example, Father's sister's husband will be Phupa.

Then, their children are identified with a suffix.

Mother's brother's son = Mamoo zaad bhai

Mother's brother's daughter = Mamoo zaad behan

Etc.

Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter

#156

Post by vinay_ys »

In India, even before we get to cousins, we have distinct terms for father/mother's siblings of same and opposite genders. Same gender elder/younger siblings of your parents have different pronouns that translate this way in Kannada (Language of Karnataka state):

senior-father - ದೊಡ್ಡಪ್ಪ (doddaappa) for elder brother of father,

senior-mother - ದೊಡ್ಡಮ್ಮ (doddammA) for elder sister of mother,

junior-father – ಚಿಕ್ಕಪ್ಪ (chikkappa) for younger brother of father,

junior-mother - ಚಿಕ್ಕಮ್ಮ (chikkammA) for younger sister of mother.

Their spouses get the same seniority title with appropriate gender.

Then, opposite gender siblings of your parents get pronouns that are more conceptually closer to uncle/aunt. But here, there's no seniority distinction.

Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter

#157

Post by oefrha »

smeej wrote: post #126
imron wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Chinese there is a distinction between cousins whose parents are brothers (堂 tang) and cousins whose parents aren’t brothers (表 biao). There is also a distinction between older and younger siblings, and then also gender. What seems awkward in English is the very simple and concise 表妹 (biao mei) in Chinese.

It has to have been 20-ish years ago now (pre-smartphone/pocket internet), but I was traveling in Europe and my friends and we stayed in a hostel with a young woman from China. We had a terribly hard time explaining the idea of "cousin." Once we did, she explained that she was unfamiliar with the concept because her family (and apparently all the families she knew well) had only had single children for generations. I…

The young woman in your anecdote is an extreme outlier. First, her family and all families she knew well only had a single child for generations; if that’s the case for most people, the population would shrink rapidly, so obviously most families aren’t like that. Secondly, to be unfamiliar with the concept at all, she had to be unfamiliar with some household names from cornerstones of Chinese literature, taught in grade school; very unlikely for a literate person. She also had to distance herself from television and the like, which was achievable twenty years ago.

Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter

#158

Post by throwaway290 »

hervature wrote: post #149
eitland wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am fairly sure English doesn't have (or at least does not use) separate everyday words for farmor/farfar (fathers mother / fathers mother) or mormor/morfar (same for mothers parents). Sure in academic language there is probably a way to describe it (edit: and the concept is easy to explain) but there is nothing quick that you can use to tell a kid so they immediately know which of the grandparents we are going to v…

I can't tell if this is serious. I don't even know which language you're using but it is literally no different than mom's mom and dad's mom other than a space.

The space makes the difference between "word exists" and "word doesn't exist".

Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter

#159

Post by throwaway290 »

conductr wrote: post #135
mynegation wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you squint hard enough - yes. I do not know if it is Sapir-Whorf, but if I grew up using completely different words for sisters of my spouse, brothers of my spouse, husband of my sister, and wife of my brother, they do not look that similar to me.

But you understand they’re all referring to aunts and uncles of your children

uncle/aunt is wildcard relation and means little. Actually in Russian for example it is the same word you use to describe a random person whom you may not even have any relation to

Re: LabelContactRelationYoungerCousinMothersSiblingsDaughterOrFathersSistersDaughter

#160

Post by eitland »

throwaway290 wrote: post #158
hervature wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't tell if this is serious. I don't even know which language you're using but it is literally no different than mom's mom and dad's mom other than a space.

The space makes the difference between "word exists" and "word doesn't exist".

I would have accepted it if it was something people would actually say, even if it was written like two words or more. Example: sister/brother in law is something that is close enough even if it isn't written in one word like Norwegian svigerinne/svoger.

But as far as I am aware English only uses grandsomething (or variations of it) + further description as needed.

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