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A basic guide to using Asian names

asiamediacentre.org.nz

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Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#91

Post by bumbledraven »

freddie_mercury wrote: post #13
tkgally wrote: post #6

The guidance on Japanese names is a bit simplistic. Yes, the Japanese government has announced a surname-first policy, but Japanese people are not bound by that policy. I have hundreds of name cards ( meishi ) that I have received from Japanese businesspeople, academics, and government officials over the years, and my rough estimate is that more than half who indicated their name in English on the card put their surn…

> The guidance on Japanese names is a bit simplistic The title of the page is a "basic guide". Not a "comprehensive guide". And they note that "the person’s preference is the most important thing to consider", which already covers your "but I have name cards in a different format" objection.

> The title of the page is a "basic guide". Not a "comprehensive guide".

Straw man. Thep post could give more useful advice with a few extra words without being "comprehensive".

> And they note that "the person’s preference is the most important thing to consider", which already covers your "but I have name cards in a different format" objection.

The post suggests putting Japanese family names first, with a generic, obvious disclaimer at the top about personal preference taking priority. There a lot more to what tkgally (who is a professor emeritus at University of Tokyo and former professional translator, by the way) said about that than "I have name cards in a different format". For one, he estimated 50% of the business cards he received had the family name last. He also linked the guidance from the Japan Style Sheet which provides many additional points in favor of not assuming the family name goes first.

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#92

Post by keiferski »

Longlius wrote: post #88
keiferski wrote: post #24

This would seem easily avoidable if people reverted back to using only last names [1] and an honorific, as was once common in the Western world. Mr. Smith, Ms. Jones, etc. 1. I mean family names here

People never exclusively used family names in the western world, at least not the way you imagine.

I didn't mean "exclusively" as in they didn't have a first name, just that they were referred to by their last names in public settings. Even a few decades ago, it was still somewhat informal to refer to strangers by their first names.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlzm7-gvTRg

Thought that was obvious from the context in the article, which is about political leaders.

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#93

Post by diego_sandoval »

kube-system wrote: post #82

We should all really remove "first name" and "last name" from our vocabularies. They literally refer to written order, but when most (western) people use them, what they actually mean are given and family names.

And they make little sense when someone has two family names (father and mother), because then you have to call them "first last name" and "second last name".

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#94

Post by kube-system »

diego_sandoval wrote: post #93
kube-system wrote: post #82

We should all really remove "first name" and "last name" from our vocabularies. They literally refer to written order, but when most (western) people use them, what they actually mean are given and family names.

And they make little sense when someone has two family names (father and mother), because then you have to call them "first last name" and "second last name".

They make no sense in the context of this article at all, because "last name first" is nonsensical. East asians don't put their "last names first". Their first names are their surnames. Anyone who says "last name first" has the right spirit, but they still are missing the entire point.

The beginning of everyone's name is their first name, because that's what "first" means.

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#95

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

martyvis wrote: post #48
SanjayMehta wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Ch.” could be short for “Choudhary,” a title. Or for “Chiranjeevi,” usually used on wedding cards before the groom’s name.

In early 20th century Australia some common names were abbreviated rather than initialled, often seen on business names. For instance George was Geo. and Charles was Chas.

I've only ever heard of this in the context of some Roman Latin inscriptions on grave markers.

If I'm not mistaken, some of those can't be interpreted at all because they're ambiguous.

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#96

Post by [deleted] »

EatingWithForks wrote: post #80
cat_plus_plus wrote: post #66

For whatever reason, my first name is almost universally mispronounced in America. So early on, I made a decision to let it go and in fact introduce myself by how most English speakers said it. No regrets whatsoever, any time spent sorting phonetics out is time wasted not getting to substance of the matter we want to discuss. I also suspect that if I made a stink about it, many people would avoid me because I have a…

I agree to some extent. There's definitely weirdos that purposefully use names and pronoun mangling to antagonize or ostracize someone, or put in literally no effort to respect someone. I've definitely heard/seen "your name's too hard, I'll just call you $some_arbitrary_name" like an adopted animal or something and that always struck me as a dick move.

[deleted]

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#97

Post by elbasti »

lanstin wrote: post #68
andrewaylett wrote: post #16

The most important point: > keep in mind that in all cases, the person’s preference is the most important thing to consider. If in doubt, just ask! I'd be quite interested to read the converse article -- it's true that British names usually go "First Last", it's the exceptions that are hard to deal with. I know several people who go by a middle name, several more who are known by a diminutive that starts with a diffe…

I would also love to read, “cultural considerations in visiting Norman, Oklahoma” written for the South Asian audience. Or “how to manage your US born workers” for upper class Asians. “Getting along in the US suburbs for the shy Indian tech geek.” To the extent these things exist, they are not easily accessible to English only US born people. Actually, I have just found my next series of Chat GPT questions. That said…

Cultural considerations in visiting Norman, Oklahoma:

- *Hospitality*: Oklahomian's will make a great fuss about their level of hospitality, and will often invite you to visit them in their home, using a phrase like "show up whenever! welcome to the neighborhood!" This is not a genuine invitation, and actually appearing in someone's home without a formal invite will be considered highly rude. This is an American phenomenon known as "chit-chat".

- *Dress:* Oklahomians have rigid norms around clothing and dress, specifically around sportswear. There are two kinds of sportswear and wearing one in place of the other is considered highly rude. Sports items like sneakers, shorts, t-shirts, and even sports jerseys are considered appropriate wear for almost all occasions ("casual"), but not for actual sporting, unless of a specific cut called "activewear" (lycra, spandex, etc). Wearing activewear in a social setting and casual wear in an active setting are both considered highly rude.

- *Children:* Oklahomians have very strict norms of childcare. Under no circumstances should you allow your children under the age of 12 to leave your home without supervision. This includes walking or riding a bicycle in your neighborhood. Young children under 10--even while under adult supervision--are not allowed in public places after 8pm. Expect to get comments or looks if you take your children to a park or shopping mall after dark. After 10pm expect police intervention.

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#98

Post by mabbo »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #59
mabbo wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you know more about this subject, I have a question on this topic that I've wondered for over two decades. In 2001, I did a month long exchange program to Thailand. A group of eight Canadians stayed with eight Thais, and the year before they stayed with us. Incredible program. All the Thais, as you mention, had nicknames. But many of the nicknames were English words that weren't really used as names in the West…

If Thailand is like China, they were English names chosen by kids in English class. Not their real nicknames, just the names they use when speaking and writing English, and chosen with all the tact and creativity of a middle schooler without much knowledge about standard English names in the west. Also, since Chinese names often have meaning, they often go for English names with meaning as well (although unrelated to…

> A famous English name in expat in China circles is Rainy.

Funny that. A friend of mine since high school - who is white and has never been to Asia - has the first name Rainey. Not a nickname.

I've never met anyone else with the name!

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#99

Post by notahacker »

JimDabell wrote: post #87
lanstin wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would also love to read, “cultural considerations in visiting Norman, Oklahoma” written for the South Asian audience. Or “how to manage your US born workers” for upper class Asians. “Getting along in the US suburbs for the shy Indian tech geek.” To the extent these things exist, they are not easily accessible to English only US born people. Actually, I have just found my next series of Chat GPT questions. That said…

It’s not exactly the same thing, but you might be interested in Passport to the Pub. It’s a description of British pub culture written for visitors. As a Brit it’s quite amusing to read about something that has seemed normal forever, only to realise that it’s quite mad at times. http://www.sirc.org/publik/pub.html

I'm also now imagining someone actually using this guide, walking into the sort of city centre gastropub popular with tourists, striding confidently past all the serving tables up to the bar, identifying a group of very drunk lads from out of town as "regulars" and trying to join in their banter, and then attempting to offer an even more confused Polish barman a drink...

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#100

Post by bedobi »

cat_plus_plus wrote: post #66

For whatever reason, my first name is almost universally mispronounced in America. So early on, I made a decision to let it go and in fact introduce myself by how most English speakers said it. No regrets whatsoever, any time spent sorting phonetics out is time wasted not getting to substance of the matter we want to discuss. I also suspect that if I made a stink about it, many people would avoid me because I have a…

My name is Fred. Oddly, despite being a not uncommon name in the English speaking world, English speakers never get it. They hear and call me Brett, Brad, Frank, Greg... anything but Fred. And it's not because I have a strong uncommon accent or anything, my accent is just a generic North American accent, most people think I'm Canadian.

Like you I've also kind of given up and usually just roll with it.

I do see where you're coming from re not getting offended but not sure I agree completely with that - I do think there's room for improvement or at least making an effort with unfamiliar names. (but demanding perfection is likewise rude)

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