A basic guide to using Asian names • Hacker News Board

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#51

Post by mabbo » Tue, Sep 19, 2023, 11:41 AM UTC

sdm wrote: post #46

This is a bit wrong for Thailand as it doesn't mention nicknames. Or rules for using the given name vs. nicknames. Unless in very formal context it's normal to use nicknames not given names. In day to day life nicknames are by far more commonly used than given names. Family names are almost never used expect in legal documents or formal setting. It's common for people who have been friends for years to not know each…

Since you know more about this subject, I have a question on this topic that I've wondered for over two decades.

In 2001, I did a month long exchange program to Thailand. A group of eight Canadians stayed with eight Thais, and the year before they stayed with us. Incredible program.

All the Thais, as you mention, had nicknames. But many of the nicknames were English words that weren't really used as names in the West. I lived with a guy named 'Knight'. Another guy was 'Farm'.

Were these names Anglicized versions of Thai nicknames? Or were the actual nicknames just sometimes pulled at random from an English dictionary?

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#52

Post by numpad0 » Tue, Sep 19, 2023, 11:43 AM UTC

There were discussions on this topic here, just 19 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37332126

The hivemind consensus among most popular recommendations was to have a nickname field, followed by a full name field only if must, and don't try to validate names, Asian or not. Which is btw exactly how most social medias are built right now.

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#53

Post by numpad0 » Tue, Sep 19, 2023, 11:46 AM UTC

tkgally wrote: post #6

The guidance on Japanese names is a bit simplistic. Yes, the Japanese government has announced a surname-first policy, but Japanese people are not bound by that policy. I have hundreds of name cards ( meishi ) that I have received from Japanese businesspeople, academics, and government officials over the years, and my rough estimate is that more than half who indicated their name in English on the card put their surn…

I think it's okay. Japanese names written in latin alphabet is just the trade name anyway, a transcription. "The real" name, subjectively, is always in Japanese.

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#54

Post by numpad0 » Tue, Sep 19, 2023, 11:55 AM UTC

mathieuh wrote: post #45

If for some reason I were mentioned in a written communication from a surname-first country I would absolutely expect to have my surname first and I wouldn't care. I would also expect my name to be transliterated into other writing systems should that be required. Is this really an important issue for people from surname-first countries?

This is just my gut feeling, but it smells like someone might be wanting to purge invalid Japanese names from an existing database of Asians, and it's not working out at all.

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#55

Post by keiferski » Tue, Sep 19, 2023, 12:25 PM UTC

JimDabell wrote: post #43

keiferski wrote: post #24

This would seem easily avoidable if people reverted back to using only last names [1] and an honorific, as was once common in the Western world. Mr. Smith, Ms. Jones, etc. 1. I mean family names here

That doesn’t work if the culture in question doesn’t use family names. For instance Malays use their given name followed by their father’s given name. Would you really refer to somebody as “Mr [their father’s given name]”?

Hmm, well reading the Wikipedia indicates that bin is used, which is similar to Arabic. It doesn’t seem that odd to call someone Mr. bin Osman. However the article does say that it’s considered rude to call someone by their father’s name in Malay culture.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysian_names

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#56

Post by tamimio » Tue, Sep 19, 2023, 12:57 PM UTC

Russia is in Asia, Turkey is in Asia, Yemen is in Asia too among other countries, I think the article should be more specific than just limiting a whole continent in few countries.

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#57

Post by tamimio » Tue, Sep 19, 2023, 1:03 PM UTC

keiferski wrote: post #24

This would seem easily avoidable if people reverted back to using only last names [1] and an honorific, as was once common in the Western world. Mr. Smith, Ms. Jones, etc. 1. I mean family names here

Agree, I do that all the time, I also feel it is a little more respectful to call someone by their family name rather than just name. Additionally, it’s better in terms of privacy in the internet, less phishing and social engineering attacks.

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#58

Post by mbg721 » Tue, Sep 19, 2023, 1:03 PM UTC

SeanLuke wrote: post #8

Westernized Chinese names seem to be missing. For example, in Hong Kong it's common to have both Chinese and Western first names. This leads to a complex rule: Using the Western name only: WESTERN-FIRST CHINESE-LAST Using the Chinese name only: CHINESE-LAST CHINESE-FIRST Using both: WESTERN-FIRST CHINESE-LAST CHINESE-FIRST (CHINESE-FIRST can be one or two characters). I think I got that right?

I see the dual-first-name thing a lot with consultants, but within the West I think it's typically Western-first, Chinese-first, Chinese-last, isn't it? Which is extra confusing.

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#59

Post by seanmcdirmid » Tue, Sep 19, 2023, 2:12 PM UTC

mabbo wrote: post #51

sdm wrote: post #46

This is a bit wrong for Thailand as it doesn't mention nicknames. Or rules for using the given name vs. nicknames. Unless in very formal context it's normal to use nicknames not given names. In day to day life nicknames are by far more commonly used than given names. Family names are almost never used expect in legal documents or formal setting. It's common for people who have been friends for years to not know each…

Since you know more about this subject, I have a question on this topic that I've wondered for over two decades. In 2001, I did a month long exchange program to Thailand. A group of eight Canadians stayed with eight Thais, and the year before they stayed with us. Incredible program. All the Thais, as you mention, had nicknames. But many of the nicknames were English words that weren't really used as names in the West…

If Thailand is like China, they were English names chosen by kids in English class. Not their real nicknames, just the names they use when speaking and writing English, and chosen with all the tact and creativity of a middle schooler without much knowledge about standard English names in the west. Also, since Chinese names often have meaning, they often go for English names with meaning as well (although unrelated to their Chinese name).

A famous English name in expat in China circles is Rainy.

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#60

Post by seanmcdirmid » Tue, Sep 19, 2023, 2:14 PM UTC

glandium wrote: post #38

needle0 wrote: post #32

As a Japanese native I'm torn on this. On one hand, respecting the local ordering & notation seems to be good manners. On the other hand, this creates an ambiguity where some people are writing Asian names in local notation and some others writing in western notation. (This is even true for Japanese people themselves, as mentioned in the other comments.) At least things were consistent when everyone wrote them in wes…

Fun fact: the Japanese government insists that foreigners use the name they have in their passport in official documents. That includes the middle name. My middle name has thus crept in all over the place. I've barely ever used it in my home country, but now have to use it everywhere (I live in Japan). Anyways, more relevant to OP, as a result, sometimes I'm called by my middle name, as if it were my last name (becau…

China also has this policy. Oddly enough, your middle name is often seen as part of your first name, so your first name is no longer “Sean”, it is “Sean Clarence”. Oh, and your last name is now two words because there is a space after the Mc in your passport to account for the non-standard capitalization.