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A basic guide to using Asian names

asiamediacentre.org.nz

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Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#81

Post by jhbadger »

JimDabell wrote: post #43
keiferski wrote: post #24

This would seem easily avoidable if people reverted back to using only last names [1] and an honorific, as was once common in the Western world. Mr. Smith, Ms. Jones, etc. 1. I mean family names here

That doesn’t work if the culture in question doesn’t use family names. For instance Malays use their given name followed by their father’s given name. Would you really refer to somebody as “Mr [their father’s given name]”?

That's actually how Western family names originally worked in part -- that's why things like Richardson and Johnson are common nanes (Richard's son and John's son). Of course other ones also came from professions like Smith, Baker, Cooper (maker of barrels), etc.

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#83

Post by kibwen »

earthboundkid wrote: post #69
cat_plus_plus wrote: post #66

For whatever reason, my first name is almost universally mispronounced in America. So early on, I made a decision to let it go and in fact introduce myself by how most English speakers said it. No regrets whatsoever, any time spent sorting phonetics out is time wasted not getting to substance of the matter we want to discuss. I also suspect that if I made a stink about it, many people would avoid me because I have a…

It’s a little bit of a complicated issue. On the one hand, my great-grandfather gave up using a patronym to be an American. That’s a totally normal thing, and it’s weird to complain about it. In Japan, they were often confused about which of my names was personal and which was for my family, and they never quite figured out the deal with my middle name / initial. Cultures are different, and you can’t expect everyone…

> my great-grandfather gave up using a patronym to be an American

I'd be interested to hear the story there. When it comes to surnames, AFAIK nearly every US state lets you put basically any arbitrary assembly of English characters as the last name for a child, with even fewer restrictions on the last names for adults.

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#84

Post by [deleted] »

kibwen wrote: post #83
earthboundkid wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a little bit of a complicated issue. On the one hand, my great-grandfather gave up using a patronym to be an American. That’s a totally normal thing, and it’s weird to complain about it. In Japan, they were often confused about which of my names was personal and which was for my family, and they never quite figured out the deal with my middle name / initial. Cultures are different, and you can’t expect everyone…

> my great-grandfather gave up using a patronym to be an American I'd be interested to hear the story there. When it comes to surnames, AFAIK nearly every US state lets you put basically any arbitrary assembly of English characters as the last name for a child, with even fewer restrictions on the last names for adults.

[deleted]

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#85

Post by Longlius »

vdddv wrote: post #31

Should we not simply be following the rules of the language spoken at the time? When speaking English, use the English convention. When speaking Japanese, use the Japanese convention etc.

The issue is that the convention in many languages is that the name order depends on the origin of the name in question. In Japanese for example, native Japanese names are always spoken in Family-Given order but English names are always spoken Given-Family. So then the problem is now everyone must become an expert in discerning the origin of names just so they can use the correct order.

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#86

Post by bitwize »

tkgally wrote: post #6

The guidance on Japanese names is a bit simplistic. Yes, the Japanese government has announced a surname-first policy, but Japanese people are not bound by that policy. I have hundreds of name cards ( meishi ) that I have received from Japanese businesspeople, academics, and government officials over the years, and my rough estimate is that more than half who indicated their name in English on the card put their surn…

Japanese people sometimes use the French-like convention of capitalizing the family name (e.g., "Hayao MIYAZAKI", not that he actually does this) so you can tell which is which without knowing a priori what order the named person prefers to write their name in English.

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#87

Post by JimDabell »

lanstin wrote: post #68
andrewaylett wrote: post #16

The most important point: > keep in mind that in all cases, the person’s preference is the most important thing to consider. If in doubt, just ask! I'd be quite interested to read the converse article -- it's true that British names usually go "First Last", it's the exceptions that are hard to deal with. I know several people who go by a middle name, several more who are known by a diminutive that starts with a diffe…

I would also love to read, “cultural considerations in visiting Norman, Oklahoma” written for the South Asian audience. Or “how to manage your US born workers” for upper class Asians. “Getting along in the US suburbs for the shy Indian tech geek.” To the extent these things exist, they are not easily accessible to English only US born people. Actually, I have just found my next series of Chat GPT questions. That said…

It’s not exactly the same thing, but you might be interested in Passport to the Pub. It’s a description of British pub culture written for visitors. As a Brit it’s quite amusing to read about something that has seemed normal forever, only to realise that it’s quite mad at times.

http://www.sirc.org/publik/pub.html

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#88

Post by Longlius »

keiferski wrote: post #24

This would seem easily avoidable if people reverted back to using only last names [1] and an honorific, as was once common in the Western world. Mr. Smith, Ms. Jones, etc. 1. I mean family names here

People never exclusively used family names in the western world, at least not the way you imagine.

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#89

Post by chaorace »

cat_plus_plus wrote: post #66

For whatever reason, my first name is almost universally mispronounced in America. So early on, I made a decision to let it go and in fact introduce myself by how most English speakers said it. No regrets whatsoever, any time spent sorting phonetics out is time wasted not getting to substance of the matter we want to discuss. I also suspect that if I made a stink about it, many people would avoid me because I have a…

I admire your pragmatism. I think it's quite neat how your chosen name reflects that aspect of your self, too.

Re: A basic guide to using Asian names

#90

Post by jjoonathan »

EatingWithForks wrote: post #80
cat_plus_plus wrote: post #66

For whatever reason, my first name is almost universally mispronounced in America. So early on, I made a decision to let it go and in fact introduce myself by how most English speakers said it. No regrets whatsoever, any time spent sorting phonetics out is time wasted not getting to substance of the matter we want to discuss. I also suspect that if I made a stink about it, many people would avoid me because I have a…

I agree to some extent. There's definitely weirdos that purposefully use names and pronoun mangling to antagonize or ostracize someone, or put in literally no effort to respect someone. I've definitely heard/seen "your name's too hard, I'll just call you $some_arbitrary_name" like an adopted animal or something and that always struck me as a dick move.

Yes, though the opposite also happens: people spend time struggling over your name when you don't want to be a language tutor.
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