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iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation

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Re: iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation

#281

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

tpm wrote: post #279
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm pretty sure these principles are originally French. The American system was built around these principles as well, but calling them American is a whole new level of Americentrism I'll concede that - certainly. > Separation of powers into three branches is basically a prerequisite for belonging to the EU, as it is considered a basic requirement for a democracy The EU is concerned more with judicial independence,…

> most EU countries (and especially its founding and early members) do not have separation strictly along judicial/legislative/executive boundary lines 1. Let's not count the UK because it's the earliest democracy, and also is the messiest one (no written Constitution...) and also it's not the earliest or current member of the EU. 2. What exactly is an 'executive parliament'? My understanding is that in parliamentary…

> What exactly is an 'executive parliament'?

Sorry - I was being sloppy and made-up a term that at-the-time made sense to me but I didn't proofread my post...

But I was referring to any parliamentary system where executive power is held by (a subset of) the members of that parliament (i.e. how the PM's cabinet's members are MPs) - basically what Canada and the UK has, for example.

Re: iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation

#282

Post by ChrisRR »

quitit wrote: post #165
fh9302 wrote: post #22

Apple has denied those findings. > Apple said it had provided ANFR with multiple Apple and independent third-party lab results proving its compliance with all applicable SAR regulations and standards in the world. https://www.reuters.com/technology/apple-disputes-french-fin...

If this sounds familiar it's because accredited labs made a similar claims about the iPhone 7/8 and then again the iPhone 11. In each case it was the lab using an incorrect methodology. I wouldn't be surprised if that's what's happened here. There is a canyon of technical knowhow between RF engineers and testing labs.

There's a canyon of knowledge between a lot of engineers and test labs. You would've thought that a company that provides medical certification would know how to test medical products. But the number of times I've had to explain standards to test houses is not even funny

Re: iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation

#283

Post by ChrisRR »

derefr wrote: post #209
quitit wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this sounds familiar it's because accredited labs made a similar claims about the iPhone 7/8 and then again the iPhone 11. In each case it was the lab using an incorrect methodology. I wouldn't be surprised if that's what's happened here. There is a canyon of technical knowhow between RF engineers and testing labs.

> There is a canyon of technical knowhow between RF engineers and testing labs. Why aren't testing labs hiring RF engineers?

"RF engineers" is a very broad term. There's RF engineers who understand the dark arts of antenna design and bending the signal to their will, and RF engineers who can click a few buttons to make sure the antenna is within spec

Re: iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation

#284

Post by tpm »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #281
tpm wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most EU countries (and especially its founding and early members) do not have separation strictly along judicial/legislative/executive boundary lines 1. Let's not count the UK because it's the earliest democracy, and also is the messiest one (no written Constitution...) and also it's not the earliest or current member of the EU. 2. What exactly is an 'executive parliament'? My understanding is that in parliamentary…

> What exactly is an 'executive parliament'? Sorry - I was being sloppy and made-up a term that at-the-time made sense to me but I didn't proofread my post... But I was referring to any parliamentary system where executive power is held by (a subset of) the members of that parliament (i.e. how the PM's cabinet's members are MPs) - basically what Canada and the UK has, for example.

Ah ok now I understand. Don't know about Canada but the UK is certainly an exception in this regard. In Germany and rest of Central Europe the PM and ministers are not required to be MPs, in fact currently in Slovakia we have a interim government without any MPs at all. Also in Slovakia when a MP is made PM or member of government he is temporarily released from the parliament and a substitute from the party list is temporarily taking his MP place. In some other countries sitting MPs while in government still have to take care of their MP duties.

Re: iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation

#285

Post by pantulis »

kaba0 wrote: post #134
Narishma wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mother nature doesn't exist. It's a man-made concept that can think anything you want it to.

Parent commenter likely references the quick film which featured Mother Nature in yesterday’s Apple event.

Exactly!

Re: iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation

#286

Post by [deleted] »

oblio wrote: post #92
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EDIT: I'll admit I overlooked the US system's origins origins and concepts in France - but even though these concepts are not American in origin, the US is where all the mentions lead-to today. --- It is an Americanism because the term implicitly assumes two things: 1. That the government is split into branches, following how the US system evolved. 2. That executive power must be confined to a single branch, also how…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers#Montesqui... The origin of the principle is literally European, but all right, you have an agenda, have fun :-)

[deleted]

Re: iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation

#287

Post by stoobs »

londons_explore wrote: post #13

Apple might be able to fix this by asking the user if they're using a case, Anyone using a case thicker than ~2mm will probably sufficiently reduce the surface SAR to bring it into compliance. One might imagine a software update that asks if you're using a case. If you choose yes, nothing happens. If you choose no, then peak transmit power is reduced by 1dB (which will reduce upload speeds ~20%, and may reduce range…

Even simpler fix - If in France, reduce peak transmit power by 10%.

Re: iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation

#288

Post by toyg »

tpm wrote: post #280
toyg wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything can happen in the same way as it happened with Maastricht and the Euro: cooperating countries would just go forward with new entities that inherit the previous institutions, dissolving or mothballing old entities. In the long run, the hard core inevitably wins. Anything that includes France, Germany, Italy, and Spain, will inevitably drag everyone else one way or another.

Yet several EU members still don't use the Euro and will not use it for the foreseeable future. So the hard core didn't win?

Technically, all of them are required to join once their structural problems are solved - it's not that they chose not to adopt but rather that they were left out to avoid compromising the currency. Most of them have a clear political will to join the eurozone. The only real exception is Sweden, which effectively enjoys a de-facto opt-out like Denmark, for historical reasons (although they are increasingly under pressure to join).

Regardless, the hard core has won because the Euro is now a cornerstone of EU policies, whether the non-EZ countries like it or not. Every project, every accounting in the Union is now done in Euros.

Re: iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation

#289

Post by toyg »

closewith wrote: post #139
toyg wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything can happen in the same way as it happened with Maastricht and the Euro: cooperating countries would just go forward with new entities that inherit the previous institutions, dissolving or mothballing old entities. In the long run, the hard core inevitably wins. Anything that includes France, Germany, Italy, and Spain, will inevitably drag everyone else one way or another.

> Anything that includes France, Germany, Italy, and Spain, will inevitably drag everyone else one way or another. Maybe so, but whatever it became wouldn't be the EU and wouldn't include most of the current members states. It's obviously still an impossibility, as there is no appetite in any of those four countries for a federal EU.

You're making up your "obvious" reality there. EU federalism was born in France and remains strong in the other three countries I mentioned - it might not be a clear majority at the moment, but it's definitely a popular idea among large swaths of the population. The evolution of EU structures undeniably goes in that direction year after year, with stronger and stronger federal institutions.

Re: iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation

#290

Post by willis936 »

mort96 wrote: post #141
willis936 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not right, but influential on EU regulators. Hopefully EU citizens find such results as a mark of shame rather than pride and move towards fact-based policy. Emotion-based policy is dangerous.

The EU has more lax regulations on SAR than the FCC does (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_absorption_rate#Mobil... ). It may be unnecessarily low, but it's certainly not a mark of shame for EU citizens specifically.

Then why is the iPhone 12 not in violation of US regulations?
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