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The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

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Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#151

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

jamiek88 wrote: post #64
Damogran6 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't tried lately (moved on to aother anti-histimines) but with a Driver's license, I could pretty readily get ahold of it. Then had to disengage based on what it was doing to my blood pressure.

Were you using a ‘D’ version? Like Claritin-D? I got that by accident once and my heart pounded like I was on speed. I’m highly sensitive to that stuff, same at the dentist the local anesthesia makes my heart race. Third generation antihistamines are amazing. Zyrtec changed my life. I used to majorly struggle with ‘hayfever’ as we called it, to the point it ruined my summer. I was miserable as a child, only winter ga…

> my heart pounded like I was on speed.

Pseudoephedrine literally is an amphetamine, and famously the precursor to meth(amphetamine). I don't have a similar reaction but I'm not surprised some people are more sensitive.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#152

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

jeffbee wrote: post #17
buildsjets wrote: post #9

The fact that phenylepherine is ineffective is quite old and has been common knowledge for many years. What is news is that the FDA is finally acknowledging it. I've maintained my own reserve of pseudoephedrine for years. https://gizmodo.com/report-many-over-the-counter-decongestan... https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2015/10/26/the-pop... https://www.newscientist.com/article/2089555-breaking-bad-sn...

> I've maintained my own reserve of pseudoephedrine for years. Synthesizing it from widely-available and affordable street drugs, I assume. https://improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume19/v19i3/Pse...

Lol, that article is really brilliantly hilarious. SNL should do a "Bizarro-World Breaking Bad" where Walter and Jesse go around buying up crystal meth so they can cook Sudafed.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#153

Post by meatmanek »

samtheprogram wrote: post #59
mullingitover wrote: post #21

I always thought it was pretty brazen of them to openly label their cold medicine as 'placebo effect' (pretty sure that's what the 'PE' stands for).

I always thought it was for Phenyl-Ephrine, but this is so funny/perfect I will use this when explaining to people to not buy Sudafed unless it's behind the counter.

I always assumed it was there to subtly confuse people into thinking they were getting Pseudo-Ephedrine.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#154

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

nimish wrote: post #40
jeffbee wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've maintained my own reserve of pseudoephedrine for years. Synthesizing it from widely-available and affordable street drugs, I assume. https://improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume19/v19i3/Pse...

Easily the best example of why the stupid federal law limiting access to a useful decongestant backfired.

You realize your "best example" is a joke, right?

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#155

Post by badRNG »

dzdt wrote: post #137
pixl97 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Ok fine, you can still sell it over the counter... except a X by Y sign stating 'This product is completely ineffective if taken in pill form' needs displayed on the shelf where the product is sold"

The same stores sell completely ineffective homeopathic "medicines" alongside real medicines already. There are no signs. Its already up to the consumer to determine what may or may not actually work at the pharmacy.

A few years back, I came down with the flu and went to CVS for medicine. I purchased what I thought was a non-prescription alternative to Tamiflu. It was a bad case, and I dutifully followed the dosing instructions and took the medication throughout the whole illness. It turns out the product and the supposed function is complete homeopathic nonsense. It was sold in a medicine isle along with known "functional" cold medicine, and had some "Active Ingredient" listed on the back (similar to any other drug label.)

I spent my money on a product sold by a pharmacy that is quite literally a scam. I'm naturally a skeptical person, but I didn't think I needed to independently check whether what's on a pharmacy store's shelves is medicine or a scam. That's not my lane, I trusted that the pharmacy would only sell medicine that works.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#156

Post by lazide »

tptacek wrote: post #98
akira2501 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What they're going to do with it is prevent me from making a purchase if I've crossed some arbitrary limit as if exceeding that limit automatically makes me a drug trafficker. From there, it's not too far of a stretch to imagine the government assigning someone to review the list and to expend additional investigative resources into merely "suspicious" cases. Plenty of good tragedies start this way. If the government…

They're just going to say "no", right? They're not going to "automatically make you a drug trafficker". They're just trying to enforce a rate limit.

[flagged]

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#157

Post by CoastalCoder »

akira2501 wrote: post #66
jimmaswell wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And now we've got a fentanyl epidemic filling the void and even more power handed to Mexican cartels since meth got harder to produce domestically. Drugs continue to win the war on drugs.

You can't fight a war against inanimate objects. You can fight a war against drug addicts. You cannot possibly win a war against drug addicts without addressing the fundamental problem.

Until the past few years, I held a similar view. I.e., if we could just dry up the demand for the product, the rest of the system would crumble.

Then the whole Sackler / Oxycontin thing came to light. And I saw (well, second hand) a normal person get hooked on pain meds after back surgery, thanks to those assholes. And they're not in prison.

That's when I concluded that we lack the collective will to take the necessary steps to fully stop the trade of addictive drugs.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#158

Post by clipsy »

tptacek wrote: post #95
omginternets wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Real Sudafed is to a first approximation available to everybody. I didn't actually know this, and it's good to know. That said, I'm not certain that most people are aware that it is available without a script. Maybe I'm wrong.

If you walk up to the pharmacy counter at any Walgreens or CVS, literally the first thing you're going to see is a shelf of decongestants.

I can’t speak for your Walgreens or CVS, but at mine you’ll see a shelf full of phenylephrine-based decongestants only, because the pseudoephedrine-based ones are behind the counter and out of sight.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#159

Post by lazide »

tptacek wrote: post #71
fluidcruft wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every database that contains your PII increases your exposure to a breach and likelihood of having to deal with it. It's not the sudafed use that makes it a target: it's the driver's license.

Right, but this particular database presumably doesn't have anything especially sensitive in it, apart from your Sudafed consumption. I don't mean to dismiss that point, it's a valid point, I'm just considering it closely.

Sudafed usage, probably a copy of the drivers license, your address, any phone number you give them, and how often you buy a drug the DEA considers a precursor to something really terrible.

Usually no one even looks at it (so why have it even?!?), but when they do it’s a potential intro to a full on Brazil situation.

Luckily the whole thing is generally considered a waste of time, so usually nothing comes of it. But why make yourself a target if you can avoid it?

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#160

Post by tyingq »

JJMcJ wrote: post #136
buildsjets wrote: post #9

The fact that phenylepherine is ineffective is quite old and has been common knowledge for many years. What is news is that the FDA is finally acknowledging it. I've maintained my own reserve of pseudoephedrine for years. https://gizmodo.com/report-many-over-the-counter-decongestan... https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2015/10/26/the-pop... https://www.newscientist.com/article/2089555-breaking-bad-sn...

You can still get pseudoephedrine, for example Claritin D, the D for decongestant. It's not by prescription but you have to sign for it at the pharmacy desk, present ID, and I believe it's reported to FDA/DEA and there are limits to how much you can buy per month.

That's mostly right, but it's not reported to anyone. It came from the "The Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act of 2005".

If you want to sell pseudoephedrine, your org has to "self certify", keep a logbook purchasers have to sign, require ID, enforce the purchase limits, train employees, etc. But, the logbook doesn't go anywhere unless some investigation or audit prompts that. So, if you're a really determined cooker, you can still go to a bunch of different stores...though you're leaving a paper trail. And some big brands might cross-check and have an org-wide electronic log book.

https://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/meth/index.html

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