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The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

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61–70 of 350 posts

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#61
post #4

It's never worked for me and I didn't understand why people bought these products.

Knowledge. Availability. Marketing. FDA.

But honestly, I would direct my anger at the lack of transparency and oversight in the supplement market, rather than this. Glad the FDA has finally corrected course.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#62
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've maintained my own reserve of pseudoephedrine for years. Synthesizing it from widely-available and affordable street drugs, I assume. https://improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume19/v19i3/Pse...

At least if I followed that path, I would not be required to have my purchase recorded in an insecure government database.

Why are you worried about the government recording your usage of Sudafed? What is anybody going to do with that information? Serious question! I understand the principle involved; I just want to know if there's some practical concern.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#63
post #40
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've maintained my own reserve of pseudoephedrine for years. Synthesizing it from widely-available and affordable street drugs, I assume. https://improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume19/v19i3/Pse...

Easily the best example of why the stupid federal law limiting access to a useful decongestant backfired.

In what way did it backfire? It's a useful decongestant. But it also basically is methamphetamine, with just a couple easily-reversible Rubik's turns to make it a decongestant instead of an ultra-powerful stimulant.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#64

The fact that phenylepherine is ineffective is quite old and has been common knowledge for many years. What is news is that the FDA is finally acknowledging it. I've maintained my own reserve of pseudoephedrine for years. https://gizmodo.com/report-many-over-the-counter-decongestan... https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2015/10/26/the-pop... https://www.newscientist.com/article/2089555-breaking-bad-sn...

I haven't tried lately (moved on to aother anti-histimines) but with a Driver's license, I could pretty readily get ahold of it. Then had to disengage based on what it was doing to my blood pressure.

Were you using a ‘D’ version? Like Claritin-D? I got that by accident once and my heart pounded like I was on speed. I’m highly sensitive to that stuff, same at the dentist the local anesthesia makes my heart race.

Third generation antihistamines are amazing.

Zyrtec changed my life.

I used to majorly struggle with ‘hayfever’ as we called it, to the point it ruined my summer.

I was miserable as a child, only winter gave relief as I was allergic to both tree and grass pollen.

Then zirtec came out. Originally as a prescription and that coupled with Flonase completely got rid of my symptoms without fatigue!

The old antihistamines I’d have to take so many to get help that I could barely keep my eyes open.

Then I moved to Texas from UK and the flora was completely different thus I didn’t react at all!

It was heavenly.

Then I moved to Oregon and many, many, trees and plants are the same as in the UK and my allergies came back.

Much weaker this time as a lot of people age out of these types of allergies, as my mother did.

OTC zirtec sorts it out.

Anecdotal really but I thought I’d share.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#65

This strikes me as an example of a larger phenomenon. Take for example the counter-insurgency wars that have become normalized since 9/11. In these conflicts, there is enormous pressure to minimize casualties because these directly undermine the political will to conduct military operations. As such, the strategic objectives eventually degenerate to mere "presence", and commanders are effectively unable to pursue the…

(1) I think there's pretty wide agreement that selling Sudafed PE is worse than selling nothing at all, and I'd sort of expect it to be off the shelves sometime soon (it should have been much earlier than this).

(2) "Selling nothing at all" is actually not the policy. Real Sudafed is simply a behind-the-pharmacy-counter drug. You don't need a script to get it (plenty of non-abusable drugs do require scripts, a much higher bar). Real Sudafed is to a first approximation available to everybody.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a US federal law (the Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act of 2005)

And now we've got a fentanyl epidemic filling the void and even more power handed to Mexican cartels since meth got harder to produce domestically. Drugs continue to win the war on drugs.

You can't fight a war against inanimate objects. You can fight a war against drug addicts. You cannot possibly win a war against drug addicts without addressing the fundamental problem.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#67

This strikes me as an example of a larger phenomenon. Take for example the counter-insurgency wars that have become normalized since 9/11. In these conflicts, there is enormous pressure to minimize casualties because these directly undermine the political will to conduct military operations. As such, the strategic objectives eventually degenerate to mere "presence", and commanders are effectively unable to pursue the…

The Dutch take this to the extreme, where the actually effective anti-cough medication dextromethorphan is completely unavailable, but complete bullshit herbal mixes which claim to help are a dime a dozen on every store shelf. I can't even imagine the amount of needless suffering people with chronic cough go through in the Netherlands.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't tried lately (moved on to aother anti-histimines) but with a Driver's license, I could pretty readily get ahold of it. Then had to disengage based on what it was doing to my blood pressure.

Were you using a ‘D’ version? Like Claritin-D? I got that by accident once and my heart pounded like I was on speed. I’m highly sensitive to that stuff, same at the dentist the local anesthesia makes my heart race. Third generation antihistamines are amazing. Zyrtec changed my life. I used to majorly struggle with ‘hayfever’ as we called it, to the point it ruined my summer. I was miserable as a child, only winter ga…

Yeah, I cycle between kirkland nasal spray and eyedrops.

And now going back on-site, the headcolds you pick up with proximity to people, Sudafed was AWESOME, it's just a pita to get and I shouldn't use it a lot.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#69
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least if I followed that path, I would not be required to have my purchase recorded in an insecure government database.

Why are you worried about the government recording your usage of Sudafed? What is anybody going to do with that information? Serious question! I understand the principle involved; I just want to know if there's some practical concern.

Every database that contains your PII increases your exposure to a breach and likelihood of having to deal with it. It's not the sudafed use that makes it a target: it's the driver's license.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#70
post #55
post #33

I laughed out loud when I read about the lobbyists who are trying to keep phenylephrine from being taken off store shelves. In one article about the FDA panel vote, a lobbyist said that most consumers hate the alternatives -- nasal sprays because of the discomfort and pseudoephedrine because it's stored behind the pharmacy counter -- and so depriving them of a hassle-free option is anti-consumer. The fact that the ha…

Unfortunately, this is the actual logic which will be used to justify it staying on shelves. > The decongestant is in at least 250 products that were worth nearly $1.8 billion in sales last year, according to an agency presentation. Look those yachts aren't gonna buy themselves.

"Ok fine, you can still sell it over the counter... except a X by Y sign stating 'This product is completely ineffective if taken in pill form' needs displayed on the shelf where the product is sold"
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