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The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

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Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#71

Post by tptacek »

fluidcruft wrote: post #69
tptacek wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you worried about the government recording your usage of Sudafed? What is anybody going to do with that information? Serious question! I understand the principle involved; I just want to know if there's some practical concern.

Every database that contains your PII increases your exposure to a breach and likelihood of having to deal with it. It's not the sudafed use that makes it a target: it's the driver's license.

Right, but this particular database presumably doesn't have anything especially sensitive in it, apart from your Sudafed consumption.

I don't mean to dismiss that point, it's a valid point, I'm just considering it closely.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#73

Post by fluidcruft »

tptacek wrote: post #71
fluidcruft wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every database that contains your PII increases your exposure to a breach and likelihood of having to deal with it. It's not the sudafed use that makes it a target: it's the driver's license.

Right, but this particular database presumably doesn't have anything especially sensitive in it, apart from your Sudafed consumption. I don't mean to dismiss that point, it's a valid point, I'm just considering it closely.

Anything a government uses to uniquely identify and track individuals (i.e. driver's license) is the target.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#74

Post by akira2501 »

tptacek wrote: post #62
buildsjets wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least if I followed that path, I would not be required to have my purchase recorded in an insecure government database.

Why are you worried about the government recording your usage of Sudafed? What is anybody going to do with that information? Serious question! I understand the principle involved; I just want to know if there's some practical concern.

What they're going to do with it is prevent me from making a purchase if I've crossed some arbitrary limit as if exceeding that limit automatically makes me a drug trafficker.

From there, it's not too far of a stretch to imagine the government assigning someone to review the list and to expend additional investigative resources into merely "suspicious" cases. Plenty of good tragedies start this way.

If the government has an interest in preventing drug manufacture then this is the absolute worst way to go about prosecuting that agenda. It harms the wrong people and it offers no impediment to actual producers.

The information cannot possibly be useful, it may become a liability, and I didn't ask to be protected from myself.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#75

Post by cyberax »

jimmaswell wrote: post #60
anamexis wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a US federal law (the Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act of 2005)

And now we've got a fentanyl epidemic filling the void and even more power handed to Mexican cartels since meth got harder to produce domestically. Drugs continue to win the war on drugs.

Meth is not harder to produce. It's now mass-produced from P2P, with chiral purification using various methods (like pulling one enantiomer with tartaric acid).

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#76

Post by matwood »

greatpostman wrote: post #5

Probably will get downvoted for this, but a bunch of my family members are pharmacists. Their quiet opinion is that most pharmaceuticals don’t work. Even the ones that are thought effective. The data is anecdotal, but is over 15 years of watching people come in for prescriptions. The other aspect, is they say it’s mind boggling to see what kind of drugs people are on.

I don't take many medicines and then only ones that I have found to work for me. Pseudoephedrine absolutely does work, phenylephrine does not.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#77

Post by JoeAltmaier »

akira2501 wrote: post #66
jimmaswell wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And now we've got a fentanyl epidemic filling the void and even more power handed to Mexican cartels since meth got harder to produce domestically. Drugs continue to win the war on drugs.

You can't fight a war against inanimate objects. You can fight a war against drug addicts. You cannot possibly win a war against drug addicts without addressing the fundamental problem.

Most of us cannot make these drugs ourselves. To restrict them effectively would certainly curtail their abuse?

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#78

Post by kstrauser »

jrockway wrote: post #44
kstrauser wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d like to think you’ve heard them grousing about specific things like this and misinterpreting that as a general mistrust. Every medicine I’ve ever taken had an objective, quantifiable effect on me. Except for phenylephrine, of course, which only served to teach me how to ask the pharmacist for the good stuff.

I think that people are hoping for larger effects. I have been a lifelong allergy sufferer. Many years ago, my doctor gave me an intranasal antihistamine. It came with a piece of paper about the studies done on it. Patients rated their symptoms on a 1-5 scale, and the study observed the ratings with and without. The placebo group rated their symptoms, say, 4.0. The people on the drug rated them 3.5. I would say that'…

Huh, that’s an interesting point and I bet there’s something to it. I’m taking OTC allergy meds right now but still have some symptoms; it’s not an instant and complete cure. Anyone who expects an instant improvement from most kinds of medicines is going to be sorely disappointed, and doctors need to diligently explain that such-and-such will help a problem, not immediately fix it altogether.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#79

Post by nonethewiser »

cheald wrote: post #27
buildsjets wrote: post #9

The fact that phenylepherine is ineffective is quite old and has been common knowledge for many years. What is news is that the FDA is finally acknowledging it. I've maintained my own reserve of pseudoephedrine for years. https://gizmodo.com/report-many-over-the-counter-decongestan... https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2015/10/26/the-pop... https://www.newscientist.com/article/2089555-breaking-bad-sn...

Indeed. I've known that phenylepherine is worthless for a long while, and just make it a point to buy a pack of the real stuff every 6 months or so, so that I always have it on hand when I need it. In my state, it's controlled - you have to get it from a pharmacist (though you can do so without a prescription) - they take your driver's license and don't allow you to purchase it too often.

You can buy 6 boxes of sudafed per month (24 doses each). Isn’t that more than the recommended (and probably safe) daily limit? I dont doubt your intentions but I don’t think you actually need 6 boxes per month + a stash.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#80

Post by cyberax »

kstrauser wrote: post #42
jacobsimon wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just came here to say that I actually find phenylephrine nasal spray quite effective - but I use it for a different use case: stopping nosebleeds quickly. It's quite effective at that and came recommended by an ENT, so I do believe it's an effective vasoconstrictor when applied locally and I'm glad it's available.

That's legitimate. The FDA's issue with oral phenylephrine is that it's metabolized in the gut before it gets to the sites where you want it to work.

I wonder if it will work as a suppository.
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