iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation • Hacker News Board

Re: iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation

#241

Post by bee_rider » Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 5:04 PM UTC

wirrbel wrote: post #195

bee_rider wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are these labs accredited? Sounds like France has a problem with some labs or possibly an accreditation organization I guess.

If the labs use a round robin method for validation of their testing methods the quality of their measurements should be high, shouldn’t they? In other words, who is validating apple’s labs?

I guess I assumed the flow would be something like:

Apple wants to sell things in France.

Apple submits the devices to some France-certified labs who do the test.

They get an “OK” stamp, and the lab is responsible if there was a mistake in the testing.

If the labs belong to Apple, then there’d just be an obvious conflict of interest, right?

Re: iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation

#242

Post by lloeki » Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 5:08 PM UTC

some_random wrote: post #216

w0m wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds similar to the '5g rollout caused covid' movement in the states.

5G panic was absolutely not limited to the US, honestly it's probably more prevalent in France, the UK, and Australia

It even predates 5G by a long shot, I recall anecdotes running the news headlines about some folks claiming newly installed (2G? 3G?) cell towers were causing them debilitating headaches, and covering walls and windows with tin foil made it better. It was later revealed that while the tower was indeed up it was entirely unpowered the whole time but that bit of news of course did not make it to the headlines.

Re: iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation

#243

Post by sweetrobot2k » Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 5:08 PM UTC

[dead]

Re: iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation

#244

Post by sweetrobot2k » Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 5:09 PM UTC

Someone wrote: post #232

quitit wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this sounds familiar it's because accredited labs made a similar claims about the iPhone 7/8 and then again the iPhone 11. In each case it was the lab using an incorrect methodology. I wouldn't be surprised if that's what's happened here. There is a canyon of technical knowhow between RF engineers and testing labs.

Are you saying those phones were found in non-compliance, too? If so, were they banned?

[dead]

Re: iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation

#245

Post by dmazzoni » Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 5:10 PM UTC

cowl wrote: post #205

mardifoufs wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France has a huge "cellular EM waves are bad" movement so I wouldn't trust them about this either. It's weird that they are the only country where these iPhones seem to misbehave.

Well if it was for the "cellular EM waves are bad" movement as you put it they would have a problem with most cellular phones and not specifically with the iPhone 12 don't you think?

It's affecting lots of phones.

"Smartphone radiation tests have so far led to 42 sales stops in the country. It is the first time Apple has been affected by such a move."

From https://www.reuters.com/technology/apple-disputes-french-fin...

Re: iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation

#246

Post by kube-system » Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 5:15 PM UTC

usr1106 wrote: post #233

kube-system wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the sun emits ionizing radiation, which radio devices do not. And ionizing radiation is known to damage DNA and cause cancer.

The sun emits UV which certainly causes skin cancer if you get too much of it.

Yes, this is what I am referring to. The transition from non-ionizing to ionizing occurs within the UV part of the spectrum.

Re: iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation

#247

Post by dmazzoni » Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 5:20 PM UTC

interactivecode wrote: post #52

jdietrich wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An abundance of caution.

better a bit of caution than a slow and painful death? If history is any indicator it's a good idea to be more cautious than less

Yes, which is why the radiation limits for cell phones was set to 10x lower than the lowest amount that might be theoretically even slightly harmful.

Now one testing lab in France says that one particular phone is slightly (less than 10%) higher than those already very conservative, cautious limits.

Most likely scenario: the testing lab used the wrong methodology. This is what happened in France many times previously.

Also possible: the testing lab is right, some phones are slightly out of compliance. They're still safe. The radiation levels are still way below levels that are even theoretically harmful.

Re: iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation

#248

Post by robertlagrant » Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 5:22 PM UTC

greyman wrote: post #197

robertlagrant wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but the "accredited" in accredited laboratory is itself a paperwork audit-based process. This is how you get your own paperwork as a manufacturer to give to an auditor to say "Look at our paperwork". It doesn't mean the regulator is somehow testing things itself.

How do you know that? The article says they measured it is 5,74 W/kg, which Apple disagrees with. So in which paper would that number appear?

Sorry, I don't understand the question. "In which paper" presumably doesn't refer to an academic paper?

Re: iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation

#249

Post by tick_tock_tick » Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 5:25 PM UTC

willis936 wrote: post #47

davidblowie wrote: post #29

Wait so the phones cause cancer people were right?

Not right, but influential on EU regulators. Hopefully EU citizens find such results as a mark of shame rather than pride and move towards fact-based policy. Emotion-based policy is dangerous.

Dude it's the EU more then half their shit is feels based then facts. Still waiting for them to find any actual issue with GMO crops.

Re: iPhone 12 withdrawn from French market for non-compliance with EU regulation

#250

Post by leephillips » Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 5:33 PM UTC

eclecticfrank wrote: post #66

davidblowie wrote: post #29

Wait so the phones cause cancer people were right?

That is still an ongoing debate [1] and one side of the argument is heavily influenced and funded by the telecom industry [2]. [1] https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/r... [2] https://news.berkeley.edu/2021/07/01/health-risks-of-cell-ph...

Sure, in the sense that there’s an ongoing debate between creationists and normal people.