Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs • Hacker News Board

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#351

Post by onetimeusename » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 3:56 PM UTC

donnie12345 wrote: post #342

onetimeusename wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My ex gf is here on H1B and so is all her friend group. I feel bad for her situation, it adds a layer of stress but the way they treat the visa is disrespectful to Americans I think. For example, they are generally of the mindset that Americans are stupider and lazier than them which is why they are here. So they will vent their frustrations on Americans by calling us stupid and lazy and entitled because we have citi…

Her ethnicity ? If you don't mind

She's Indian.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#352

Post by vacuity » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 3:57 PM UTC

Zetice wrote: post #347

vacuity wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't deny that immigrants are beneficial at the moment. However, some people aren't going to have jobs. Besides, it's not as if noncitizens should be paid less just because they can survive with those wages. I'm saying that if the US actually cared for all of its people, I'll say present immigrants included, there won't be room for an arbitrary number of new immigrants. Are you going to try to stretch that limit u…

There is no "pragmatic" limit. As more people arrive, more jobs are needed to support them, more jobs are made available as a larger pool of workers able to do a wider variety of tasks for wages that allow for corporations to turn a profit. It's a self sustaining cycle. The general rule here is that unless there's an obvious reason to deny equal people something you've given other people, you shouldn't deny it in the…

> The general rule here is that unless there's an obvious reason to deny equal people something you've given other people, you shouldn't deny it in the first place.

Of course. The problem is that your view of the economy is optimistic, perhaps dangerously so. Let's hope we never reach the limit and have a concrete problem on our hands, I guess.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#353

Post by mikhailfranco » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 3:58 PM UTC

onetimeusename wrote: post #329

greatpostman wrote: post #13

Generally not supposed to say this out loud, but being the only American on an all H1B team at these companies can be absolutely brutal. Very alienating, always missing out on back channel communications, no sympathy for missteps

My ex gf is here on H1B and so is all her friend group. I feel bad for her situation, it adds a layer of stress but the way they treat the visa is disrespectful to Americans I think. For example, they are generally of the mindset that Americans are stupider and lazier than them which is why they are here. So they will vent their frustrations on Americans by calling us stupid and lazy and entitled because we have citi…

Is she wrong?

It is possible to be impolite, ungrateful, obnoxious and correct.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#354

Post by bradlys » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 3:58 PM UTC

ajmurmann wrote: post #168

booleandilemma wrote: post #18

I mean, no kidding. Half the people I work with are H-1B. The program takes jobs away from Americans and should be illegal. I want to work with people from my town, not people from halfway across the world.

> I want to work with people from my town, not people from halfway across the world. And I want to work with the brightest people from all over the world. I guess we are at an impasse and are best off leaving subjective preferences out...

Brightest in the world definitely isn’t what H1B recruits on. It recruits on who is the most desperate to do hundreds of leetcode problems in order to stay in the country.

Go figure, people who want to stay in the country will jump through some ridiculous hoops and we’re all worse for it.

I have never found a reason to believe any folks on H1B are smarter than their non-H1B peers. By any stat, never seen it.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#355

Post by salawat » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 4:01 PM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #80

Palmik wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment might be interpreted as offensive on so many levels. :) One of them being the implication that, on average, nationals are bigger slackers than foreigners.

In fairness, the worst case implication is that nationals with a cushy salary are less motivated than poorly paid foreigners who need to maintain their job to maintain their visa and position in the immigration process. That doesn’t seem particularly offensive to me, a decently paid national.

>In fairness, the worst case implication is that nationals with a cushy salary are less motivated than poorly paid foreigners who need to maintain their job to maintain their visa and position in the immigration process.

"Motivated" can be one of those euphemistically loaded words. Am I "insufficiently motivated" when I refuse to cross an ethical/legal/moral line? Is an H1B who has their residency on the line "more motivated" when they're totally okay with crossing that line?

Also, here's another little thing you don't get told about H1B and everyone just assumes you you know: any H1B you manage is only supposed to be able to work in their state of residence, and you, the employer are supposed to enforce that.

Think about that from a native's point of view. You:re drawing a box around this person and basically saying "you must stay here and work". Whereas I just move around and do what needs being done wherever it's conducive to being done from.

Sure, call me privileged, but it's awful bloody draconian when the System demands you implement a surveillance mechanism on their behalf over your workers.

Maybe I'm just a bad employer. These things just really leave a bad taste in my mouth. Point being always track all the outputs. Often the desired ones are the ones no one wishes to direct your attention to.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#356

Post by eddtests » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 4:01 PM UTC

gabereiser wrote: post #314

eddtests wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the realm of extreme skill, luck, and timing. There is no way there's a cookie-cutter solution to that and if people say there is I suggest they're no different to Tai Lopez etc... Two solutions I have seen (thanks to the news): 1. Be being a world-class academic on a hot ML topic consulting to a huge tech company at a strategic level 2. Be the prime minister of a G8 country and consult for global investment f…

Consultants exist at every level. An individual will (should?) never make more than the client they serve. However, a team of consultants (like the ones who consult for global firms) can demand more than an individual can. Often times a lot more. They also take on indemnification and more risk. Last I checked, an engagement with Deloitte for anything costs $10M out the gate.

Yes but the question was how does one consultant earn multiple millions of dollars. The average managing directors at Deloitte earn around $500k - I don't think there's any reasonable way to earn over double the average managing directors rate at a Big 4 without being a sole contractor directly contracting with a company

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#357

Post by toomuchtodo » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 4:02 PM UTC

supazek wrote: post #269

argiopetech wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know plenty of US families who gross less than 50k. They live comfortably, but not extravagantly, and not in California. I also know a handful of people who make less than $25k/yr. They struggle more, but they still get by. $50k/yr, $25/hr may be chump change to a big tech company engineer with a degree from a prestigious university, but it's a very normal hourly (non-overtime) wage (maybe even on the high side) fo…

I don’t live in an expensive area but the general move towards $15/hr minimum has either caused or been a really strong indicative symptom of something like a collapse in the value of wages. A lot of people doubled their wages nearly overnight here, while myself making $25 did not see a raise at all. I was an account manager at a MSP making $25 and I remember seeing a sign for a rural bar “line cook wanted $25/hour”.…

> Tried to use that as a bargaining chip to show him how bad it was and he told me to go work at the bar if I wanted the same money for less work. No, I’d like to be gain experience and be treated like a professional, please.

That should’ve been your hint to start looking for a new role asap. If negotiation fails, bounce as fast as you can.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#358

Post by clnq » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 4:03 PM UTC

pokstad wrote: post #267

reacharavindh wrote: post #8

If only there were labor protection laws that prevent companies from firing and hiring at the same time(for same/similar roles) in the US. This is madness.

Then how would a company replace low performers?

We have labour protections in the UK and this isn't a big problem. We can't fire people on manager whims and tantrums, and there is more accountability in the process, but not a problem or an obstacle to firing people who are not capable or performing.

First, there is the initial probation period. 80% of the people who won't perform, won't perform in the initial months. You just need a veto system or objective managers and it's easy to let slackers go. A lot of managers are soft on their employees and let them pass probation even if their performance is somewhat poor and, frankly, sometimes it's obvious it will continue to be poor. This is a mistake. So long as the company doesn't make these mistakes, this solves 80% of the matter.

Secondly, employees can be put on probation again, or on personal improvement plans. Yes, it can be done for actual performance reasons, not only Google-style. They can then fail these periods if their performance doesn't improve. But once again, this needs to be done with a clear head and accountability. This solves another 10% of the matter.

Thirdly, you can demote employees so that their pay matches their effort. This probably needs some foresight as demotion requires consent from the employee, if I recall. But if that consent is given as part of the employment contract, it's another way to make things just. You pay someone who underperforms less, you use that cash to hire people who perform. This option mitigates the perceived problem in firing under-performers even more.

In short, so long as there is good evidence that the employee was underperforming, it's not a problem. There are small peculiarities around dealing with this and not exposing the company legally beyond reason. But that's true for everything. Just don't be a clueless asshole about firing employees, do it when there really is a good reason, and it will all be fine.

There are, of course, employees who are vindictive or abuse these laws. But then again, a vindictive employee or one willing to abuse the company into keeping them around is a global problem. Some small % of people will just do these things everywhere - labour protections or not.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#359

Post by Zetice » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 4:03 PM UTC

vacuity wrote: post #352

Zetice wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no "pragmatic" limit. As more people arrive, more jobs are needed to support them, more jobs are made available as a larger pool of workers able to do a wider variety of tasks for wages that allow for corporations to turn a profit. It's a self sustaining cycle. The general rule here is that unless there's an obvious reason to deny equal people something you've given other people, you shouldn't deny it in the…

> The general rule here is that unless there's an obvious reason to deny equal people something you've given other people, you shouldn't deny it in the first place. Of course. The problem is that your view of the economy is optimistic, perhaps dangerously so. Let's hope we never reach the limit and have a concrete problem on our hands, I guess.

My view is not optimistic, it's reflective of reality.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#360

Post by Zetice » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 4:04 PM UTC

spaceprison wrote: post #323

Zetice wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, people immigrated here because it was better here, and it was better here because people immigrated. And no, permanent residents do not have anything about them that is inherently more deserving of anything. That is in no way what a country is for. A country provides social services to people in exchange for some control, so as to keep order. If you give control, you get services. Land borders are not an importan…

If the contract is this simple then is it surprising that existing control givers (aka permanent residents) may have a sense that as long as they're still 'giving' they should still be 'getting' or at least have a place in line to 'get' ahead of a prospective 'giver' (h1b).

Existing control givers are corrupt and selfish, possibly evil.