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Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

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Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#261

Post by arlort »

0xDEF wrote: post #110
mattrighetti wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing salaries for tech workers in the EU vs H1B in the US does not make a lot of sense. Cost of living, taxation, rents, electricity/gas bills and welfare are completely different.

Fresh of the boat immigrants are not entitled to welfare in Europe. Taxation and electricity/gas bills tend to lower in the US. Rent in Silicon Valley and NYC are definitely a lot higher than anywhere in Europe but those are not the only places with tech jobs.

> Fresh of the boat immigrants are not entitled to welfare in Europe

If you mean healthcare then employed residents (what H1B is) are

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#263

Post by manuelabeledo »

Mizoguchi wrote: post #161

As a once H1B holder I can confirm this is actually a common practice not only a FAANGs but pretty much any large and medium size tech corporation in America. The visa is not the actual problem but the green card promise and process. It took me 6 years to be "free" and that's considered pretty fast compared to my Indian colleagues many who are still waiting more than a decade later. One of the teams I work with today…

> ... all trapped in the green card promise making 1/3 of what they could be making somewhere else.

Your colleagues need to find a lawyer, then.

Visa holders don't need to stay employed in the same company to obtain a green card. And if they really are underpaid compared to other coworkers, that's a clear case of visa fraud against the employer.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#264

Post by Zetice »

dudul wrote: post #251
Zetice wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, a nation should not put just its citizens first, that’s nationalistic garbage. Firstly it presumes a nation decides who its citizens are through some fair system, and secondly it presumes its citizens are somehow inherently more deserving than its non citizens. Anyone who agrees to the social contract gets to benefit from the nation. That’s what a country actually is.

You throw a lot of half baked assertions on this thread but it doesn't seem to go anywhere. Who should a nation put first then? I dont see the connection between how citizenship is acquired (AFAIK each nation is free to set the rules/laws that they think is fair) and if citizens should get special treatment or not. If citizens can't get "special" treatment over non resident in their own country what's the point of co…

A nation supports the people who agree to the social contract upon which the nation is founded, citizenship be damned.

Citizenship in the US is a profoundly broken system with a horrendous and racist past, and using it to decide who deserves the benefit of the social contract and who doesn’t is actively buying into the nationalistic and false idea that Americans are superior just because they were born somewhere and foreigners weren’t.

You wouldn’t argue that black slaves weren’t worthy of US protection and services until the 14th Amendment was passed, would you? You wouldn’t pretend like the US granting and then revoking citizenship from Mexican settlers repeatedly in the 19th and 20th century was acceptable, would you? Was the Chinese Exclusion Act acceptable?

A foreign life is worth exactly the same as an American life, and the difference is completely arbitrary.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#265

Post by arlort »

dboreham wrote: post #246
jaimex2 wrote: post #96

Non-American here. Do H1B workers need to live in the US to work, or they can work remotely from their country?

You have this backwards: the visa is required only to live in the US for the purposes of working. If you aren't living in the US, you can work as much as you like for a US company, provided they and you comply with laws in your country. Typically this requires them to set up a subsidiary in your country, or contract with a local company that you become an employee of.

Which is why this thread seems surreal, if it were about cost cutting they wouldn't bring people to the US in the first place

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#266

Post by dudul »

Zetice wrote: post #231
dudul wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People immigrated there because it was needed at the time. What was good centuries ago may not apply today. Yes permanent residents in the US/Iceland/Australia/Spain/whatever should get priority over temporary visa holders in their respective country. This is the whole point of countries.

No, people immigrated here because it was better here, and it was better here because people immigrated. And no, permanent residents do not have anything about them that is inherently more deserving of anything. That is in no way what a country is for. A country provides social services to people in exchange for some control, so as to keep order. If you give control, you get services. Land borders are not an importan…

Once we reach level 4 or 5 of replies I think it's not really worth pursuing so I'll just give my take on this one and leave it there. That's probably a case where principles/values or whatever you want to call it differ too much for anything to come out of it.

People were allowed and welcome to immigrate because there was a gigantic country to fill. Now this policy makes no sense so rules have changed. It's just common sense. The way a country was built/populated doesn't need to persist forever and should adapt to whatever works best at a given time.

Otherwise let's push the logic: mostly white people immigrated at the beginning, should we stick to this? It makes no sense.

It's not about "deserving". It's about the common good of the population. I believe in helping people who are already here better their life instead of relocating someone.

One could argue that having access to good jobs is part of the nebulous "social services" you mention.

As a side note, it's interesting how the interest of the immigrant seems to always be superficially taken into consideration. Immigrants don't all want to move. I would bet a lot of them would much prefer to have a better life where they are to begin with.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#268

Post by jpalawaga »

Zetice wrote: post #240
orochimaaru wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because a nation should put its citizens interests first. This isn’t a hard concept. There’s plenty of companies though that don’t do h1b. Major telcos, defense contractors (those are us citizen only), a lot of small hedge funds, etc.

No, a nation should not put just its citizens first, that’s nationalistic garbage. Firstly it presumes a nation decides who its citizens are through some fair system, and secondly it presumes its citizens are somehow inherently more deserving than its non citizens. Anyone who agrees to the social contract gets to benefit from the nation. That’s what a country actually is.

Your premise is flawed. If I create a new nation and my nations social contact is one norm: no outsiders, then you can't simply be a national by agreeing to the contract.

In practice, nations prioritize their own citizens, in the same way you will prioritize your family. Do you abandon taking care of your family because it would be "more fair," to take care of someone on the other side of the planet?

Your countrymen should have aligned values, cultures, goals, missions, etc that prioritizes them. That's the fabric of society.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#269

Post by supazek »

argiopetech wrote: post #127
matheusmoreira wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only exploitation if those workers have to live in the US. Something like 50kUSD/y is laughable to an american but is actually a ridiculous amount of money for a lot of people due to exchange rates. More than worth it so long as they can work remotely without paying US cost of living.

I know plenty of US families who gross less than 50k. They live comfortably, but not extravagantly, and not in California. I also know a handful of people who make less than $25k/yr. They struggle more, but they still get by. $50k/yr, $25/hr may be chump change to a big tech company engineer with a degree from a prestigious university, but it's a very normal hourly (non-overtime) wage (maybe even on the high side) fo…

I don’t live in an expensive area but the general move towards $15/hr minimum has either caused or been a really strong indicative symptom of something like a collapse in the value of wages. A lot of people doubled their wages nearly overnight here, while myself making $25 did not see a raise at all.

I was an account manager at a MSP making $25 and I remember seeing a sign for a rural bar “line cook wanted $25/hour”. Tried to use that as a bargaining chip to show him how bad it was and he told me to go work at the bar if I wanted the same money for less work. No, I’d like to be gain experience and be treated like a professional, please.

Point being, $50K ain’t shit. Even in rural areas.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#270

Post by matheusmoreira »

thfuran wrote: post #212
matheusmoreira wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only exploitation if those workers have to live in the US. Something like 50kUSD/y is laughable to an american but is actually a ridiculous amount of money for a lot of people due to exchange rates. More than worth it so long as they can work remotely without paying US cost of living.

>Something like 50kUSD/y is laughable to an american What's laughable is how out of touch you are. US median personal income among workers who work full-time year round is about $56k.

Wow. I guess I am out of touch.
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