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Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

electrek.co

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Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#111

Post by kogepathic »

zx8080 wrote: post #85
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in the article, I didn't see anything mentioned about incentivizing cycling or walking (or infrastructure investments to support them). They're simply reducing subsidies to EVs, which will only be slightly less heavily subsidized compared to ICE vehicles. Anyone from Norway know what they're doing for walking and cycling that isn't in the article?

> Anyone from Norway know what they're doing for walking and cycling that isn't in the article? It's not "they", it's winter. If you don't move, you're frozen. And soon dead. So no EV - have to walk. Or cycle. Or public transport.

> It's not "they", it's winter.

Somehow the residents of Oulu find a way to cycle in winter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU

> If you don't move, you're frozen.

Good thing cycling and walking involve moving.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#112

Post by Tade0 »

Fricken wrote: post #75
Kretinsky wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cycled to work for 3 years in Paris. Cycling on fresh snow isn't so dangerous, but on ice it is as you won't be able to brake. Also, cycling by -20°c is a very uncomfortable experience and increases a lot your chances to die if you fall and pass out. Last, cycling, especially in winter, is good if you're able-bodied, but it leaves out people with disabilities, which makes a sizable amount of the population if you t…

-20°C is plenty comfortable to ride if you know how to dress for the weather.

-20°C is the temperature at which even snot freezes which is in and of itself uncomfortable.

I grew up with winters occasionally reaching -30°C and the logistics of walking (and cycling) in such an environment are simply time-consuming.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#113

Post by sham1 »

CuriousCosmic wrote: post #45
SoftTalker wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's amazing how bike advocates view the world as a homogenous place. Where I live it's 90 degrees or higher, and humid in the summer, and can be sub-zero in the winter. It's also quite hilly -- flat and level riding is the exception. I'm not riding a bike any substantial distance in those conditions, regardless of paths or lanes.

This isn't a problem with biking in Finland in the winter. Bike lanes are plowed and/or compacted multiple times a day during heavy snowfall. Albeit it isn't really that hilly but more than weather, the main constraint is having a city willing to actually maintain biking infrastructure.

Eh, I'll dispute that. Outside of Oulu, the winter maintenance of bicycle infrastructure is often just barely adequate if even that.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#114

Post by TonyStr »

vinni2 wrote: post #5

> boosting walking and cycling how exactly are they boosting that? They should really be making public transport better and cheaper throughout the country not just Olso.

Which they absolutely are doing, but it's difficult to provide public transport anywhere else than the big cities when only about 2% of Norway is inhabited. The price of public transport is not what's keeping people from using it, but the fact that many people live outside the big cities and have to travel to them for work. Depending on where you live, commuting to the city may be very unwieldy. Oslo has been building out more train tracks recently which make travel time much quicker for a lot of people living outside the city.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#115

Post by timc3 »

willio58 wrote: post #58
vinni2 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside of Oslo the infrastructure is built with car reliance deincentivizing cars and incentivizing walking and bikes won’t make much difference. Instead they should be making public transport more attractive. Walking and biking is not exactly ideal in harsh weather.

> Outside of Oslo the infrastructure is built with car reliance deincentivizing cars and incentivizing walking and bikes won’t make much difference. To me this reads like "Cars have won, give up on walking and biking in your cities." That's just not a solution. Just because car lobbyists have successfully ruined nearly all US cities and a good amount of European ones doesn't mean we just sit down and continue to let…

Have you been in Norway? The weather can be harsh, the Norwegians are some of the best in dealing with it in the world, but covering large parts of Norway with public transport is difficult.

I used to bike in Bergen, Norway in the winter and it can be really dangerous - I saw many accidents even from the locals.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#116

Post by timc3 »

devoutsalsa wrote: post #108
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have e-bikes, S-pedelecs, e-scooters and electric motorbikes. Hills are not a relevant issue technologically

Riding on a flat surface isn't such a big deal. Riding up & down a hill street covered in snow and/or ice is non-trivial.

I lived on a mountainside in Norway. The amount of people that slipped and slid down on our roads was much higher than I could have imagined. That was people that lived there all their lives, let alone me trying to cycle.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#117

Post by londgine »

SoftTalker wrote: post #39
gentleman11 wrote: post #10

I can’t even imagine that here where I live. My neighbourhood has sidewalks, which is nice because all the adjacent ones don’t. To go downtown in this little town in winter you have to risk a treacherous steep hill covered in ice and snow that never gets cleared and it’s actually dangerous

Yes, it's amazing how bike advocates view the world as a homogenous place. Where I live it's 90 degrees or higher, and humid in the summer, and can be sub-zero in the winter. It's also quite hilly -- flat and level riding is the exception. I'm not riding a bike any substantial distance in those conditions, regardless of paths or lanes.

In Tel Aviv Israel it is normally 90 or higher and humid. A large portion of the locals commute to work with bike or e-mobility devices. Most offices have bike rooms and showers.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#118

Post by ffhhttt »

willio58 wrote: post #58
vinni2 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside of Oslo the infrastructure is built with car reliance deincentivizing cars and incentivizing walking and bikes won’t make much difference. Instead they should be making public transport more attractive. Walking and biking is not exactly ideal in harsh weather.

> Outside of Oslo the infrastructure is built with car reliance deincentivizing cars and incentivizing walking and bikes won’t make much difference. To me this reads like "Cars have won, give up on walking and biking in your cities." That's just not a solution. Just because car lobbyists have successfully ruined nearly all US cities and a good amount of European ones doesn't mean we just sit down and continue to let…

Norway outside of Oslo is largely very mountainous and not very densely populated . Maybe an e-bike could be a reasonable option during summer but you still have the rest of the year..

> It's not _that_ hard.

Yes it is, for most people given the condition. Implying that they are too lazy etc. it’s just not helpful.

> want us to believe they're bad or unsafe transportation methods

Conspiracy theories are generally not that useful. Cars are objectively the superior method of transport in low density areas (there is no use in denying that)

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#119

Post by rastignack »

willio58 wrote: post #58
vinni2 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside of Oslo the infrastructure is built with car reliance deincentivizing cars and incentivizing walking and bikes won’t make much difference. Instead they should be making public transport more attractive. Walking and biking is not exactly ideal in harsh weather.

> Outside of Oslo the infrastructure is built with car reliance deincentivizing cars and incentivizing walking and bikes won’t make much difference. To me this reads like "Cars have won, give up on walking and biking in your cities." That's just not a solution. Just because car lobbyists have successfully ruined nearly all US cities and a good amount of European ones doesn't mean we just sit down and continue to let…

> To me this reads like "Cars have won, give up on walking and biking in your cities."

Please consider that not everyone lives in a city with all amenities at walking distance. The countryside exists. We should not abandon those living there.

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