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Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

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Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#61

Post by Kretinsky »

anonporridge wrote: post #29
vinni2 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway is not Netherlands. Try biking in -20 C and go shopping for a family on a bike. Where I live bike paths are not regularly cleared they can get icy and dangerous. Public transport is the way to go. Biking can complement when and where possible. I say this as a person who commutes to work with bike everyday.

If you watched the video I linked, you would find every point you just made here dismantled.

I cycled to work for 3 years in Paris. Cycling on fresh snow isn't so dangerous, but on ice it is as you won't be able to brake. Also, cycling by -20°c is a very uncomfortable experience and increases a lot your chances to die if you fall and pass out.

Last, cycling, especially in winter, is good if you're able-bodied, but it leaves out people with disabilities, which makes a sizable amount of the population if you take aged people in the mix.

I agree with OP that in general, a good public transportation system is the first step toward better cities with less cars. Bikes can play a role, but can't be the solution for everything.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#62

Post by wzdd »

taude wrote: post #7
anonporridge wrote: post #2

Fantastic news! EVs already have escape velocity in Norway to replace ICE cars, and incentivizing more walking and cycling not only promotes more efficient modes of short distance travel, but makes the population healthier. Over reliance on cars kills us slowly via lifestyle degradation.

What's weird though, is that we're on average living a lot longer than we were 50 years ago. So how is that slowly killing us? [1] [1] https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/life... I'm guessing it trends similarly for other countries. EDIT: Not that I'm against walking and cycling (I don't own a car). But to say that this is causing less lifespan...

A bucket is filling with water at a rate of 3 drops per second.

However, the bucket has a hole which is releasing water at a rate of one drop per second.

The water level is nonetheless rising. If we plugged the hole, it would rise more rapidly.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#63

Post by kitkat_new »

pjmlp wrote: post #60
kitkat_new wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And sometimes when the temperatures fluctuate there is black ice I have to worry about. Some bike paths get salted but not all so it’s not a safe continuous ride at least for my commute. there exist winter tyres for bikes, that have spikes - ideal for ice

In Germany they are forbidden.

not for bikes

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#64

Post by delecti »

melling wrote: post #42
vinni2 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would the Russian gas situation have done that? Because the countries are realizing how relying on foreign oil and gas makes them vulnerable. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/how-t...

I think we realized that half a century ago in the 1970’s https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970s_energy_crisis But hey, feel free to make it up as you go. Most of the time people won’t call you on it. I’m not a Donald Trump fan so I won’t be posting his warning about depending on Russian gas. So, please don’t insult us with statements that are clearly silly: “Because the countries are realizing how relying on foreign…

People forget hard-learned lessons all the time. Doesn't mean the lessons aren't true, or that people didn't learn them at the time, just that we're bad at remembering things when it's convenient to forget them.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#65

Post by hyperbovine »

vinni2 wrote: post #25
anonporridge wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Winter isn't a legit excuse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU

Norway is not Netherlands. Try biking in -20 C and go shopping for a family on a bike. Where I live bike paths are not regularly cleared they can get icy and dangerous. Public transport is the way to go. Biking can complement when and where possible. I say this as a person who commutes to work with bike everyday.

-20C is simply not that common in most populated areas (it’s lower than the average daily winter temp even in somewhere like Novosibirsk) and you can plan around it.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#66

Post by ekianjo »

anonporridge wrote: post #17
vinni2 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside of Oslo the infrastructure is built with car reliance deincentivizing cars and incentivizing walking and bikes won’t make much difference. Instead they should be making public transport more attractive. Walking and biking is not exactly ideal in harsh weather.

Winter isn't a legit excuse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU

> Winter isn't a legit excuse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU

when you are 80 years old and frail you'll have to bike too? I do love people who comment by assuming everyone is going to be forever in top health to bike.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#67

Post by ekianjo »

anonporridge wrote: post #36
vinni2 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen this video and in the examples he gives they clear the bike paths. Where I live when it snows it’s just impossible to bike. In heavy snow it’s like biking on the sand. And sometimes when the temperatures fluctuate there is black ice I have to worry about. Some bike paths get salted but not all so it’s not a safe continuous ride at least for my commute.

The primary point of the video, is that when adequate infrastructure and servicing (plowing and de icing) exists, very cold, harsh weather doesn't decrease bike ridership. In the example city, Oulu Finland, they see a consistent 22% ridership all the way down to -20C, because they incentivize cycling with well designed and maintained infrastructure.

> harsh weather doesn't decrease bike ridership.

So what? Maybe it's because those people who only have a bike don't have any other means to get around? You need to look at different reasons before jumping to conclusions.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#68

Post by sokoloff »

kiba wrote: post #14
taude wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's weird though, is that we're on average living a lot longer than we were 50 years ago. So how is that slowly killing us? [1] [1] https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/life... I'm guessing it trends similarly for other countries. EDIT: Not that I'm against walking and cycling (I don't own a car). But to say that this is causing less lifespan...

Just because our lifespan is getting longer doesn't mean that something in our society and environment isn't contributing to our premature death. If our lifespan average starts at 30, and then 10 years later, the average becomes 40, doesn't mean we eliminated all factors causing us to live shorter lives.

If in a span of only 10 years the average lifespan rose by 10 years, it means you'd eliminated most of the factors causing the population to live shorter lives.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#69

Post by ambicapter »

avgcorrection wrote: post #28
anonporridge wrote: post #2

Fantastic news! EVs already have escape velocity in Norway to replace ICE cars, and incentivizing more walking and cycling not only promotes more efficient modes of short distance travel, but makes the population healthier. Over reliance on cars kills us slowly via lifestyle degradation.

Either this article is contentless compared to the press release or the press release itself is just based on platitudes. Don't fucking “incentivize” alternatives to the five-seater. Architecture it . Make more of the urban area car-free.[1] Make other modes of transportation superior except for things like emergency care. Am I holding my breath for cheap bus fares and actual bikelanes? Not exactly. The usual fare is…

It's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. If the living space is architected the way it is, people will gravitate towards the most convenient method to access it (cars). If you prioritize re-architecting you will find it difficult to move people already invested in the depreciating asset which is their vehicle, out of it. At the same time they won't move out of their car until the other transportation options are, if not equally, at least somewhat close to convenient. So basically you need to tug a little on both sides, have fewer people using cars, then it's easier to make changes that affect those cars in favor of greener transport architecture, cycle and repeat.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#70

Post by [deleted] »

ekianjo wrote: post #66
anonporridge wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Winter isn't a legit excuse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU

> Winter isn't a legit excuse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU when you are 80 years old and frail you'll have to bike too? I do love people who comment by assuming everyone is going to be forever in top health to bike.

[deleted]
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