Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla FSD Beta tried to kill me last night

electrek.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 197 posts

Re: Tesla FSD Beta tried to kill me last night

#171

Post by jlmorton »

jrflowers wrote: post #100
jlmorton wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Self driving cars are not important other than for a few exec ego This is where you really go off the rails. You can't possibly believe this.

I like the idea that the ability to use both hands to eat chicken nuggets while operating a motor vehicle at speed is so inherently and universally valuable that a person couldn’t possibly believe otherwise.

I always love an Internet take.

Currently, Americans spend about 100 billion hours driving every year, which is about 11 million man-years.

If you can't see the transformative impacts of freeing up that much time for people to enjoy any other activities, whether it be doing work, reading a book, sleeping, or eating chicken nuggets, then I honestly have no idea what to say.

Re: Tesla FSD Beta tried to kill me last night

#172

Post by jlmorton »

baz00 wrote: post #92
jlmorton wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Self driving cars are not important other than for a few exec ego This is where you really go off the rails. You can't possibly believe this.

Literally the main reasons for the push for self-driving cars are to drive operating costs down for private taxi services by removing humans and to have a marketable feature that can be upsold on luxury vehicles. These are a net negative for society as they drive up unemployment and consumption. It's ego because it's a gold rush revenue source if it plays off and various CEOs have been pushing because while stock pri…

No, the main reason is to free up millions of man years of time for other more more desirable activities, and to reduce the tens of thousands of people killed in daily carnage on our roads.

Re: Tesla FSD Beta tried to kill me last night

#173

Post by mrbadguy »

jlmorton wrote: post #171
jrflowers wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the idea that the ability to use both hands to eat chicken nuggets while operating a motor vehicle at speed is so inherently and universally valuable that a person couldn’t possibly believe otherwise.

I always love an Internet take. Currently, Americans spend about 100 billion hours driving every year, which is about 11 million man-years. If you can't see the transformative impacts of freeing up that much time for people to enjoy any other activities, whether it be doing work, reading a book, sleeping, or eating chicken nuggets, then I honestly have no idea what to say.

It might be easier to free up some of those man-years by planning and constructing towns/cities such that people don’t have to drive in them, than developing self driving cars. The two things aren’t even mutually exclusive, you could have a happy, mostly non-car based existence, and then supplement it with a self driving car on the occasion that you really need it (assuming it’s ever achieved).

Re: Tesla FSD Beta tried to kill me last night

#174

Post by Gibbon1 »

jlmorton wrote: post #171
jrflowers wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the idea that the ability to use both hands to eat chicken nuggets while operating a motor vehicle at speed is so inherently and universally valuable that a person couldn’t possibly believe otherwise.

I always love an Internet take. Currently, Americans spend about 100 billion hours driving every year, which is about 11 million man-years. If you can't see the transformative impacts of freeing up that much time for people to enjoy any other activities, whether it be doing work, reading a book, sleeping, or eating chicken nuggets, then I honestly have no idea what to say.

I first had that thought when carpooling with a coworker that listened to Rush Limbaugh. One time we're in stop and go traffic and he's ranting about how liberals are coming for your car because they hate freedom. I thought I don't feel very free right now.

Before the damn'demic had the thought that the reason people commute long distance is partly because company VIP's all like to live a) close to work. b) next to each other. Which due to suburbanization forces everyone else to commute. This seems like an incredible waste of societies resources whose costs are born by poor and middle class people. I think the whole work from home thing is a rebellion against that basic unfairness.

Re: Tesla FSD Beta tried to kill me last night

#175

Post by mrbadguy »

kakwa_ wrote: post #165
userbinator wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Add in the pretend notion that cars equal freedom and it’s just a cycle of energy wasting nonsense. It is freedom. Life is "energy wasting" too, but don't let that get in the way of ideological virtue-signaling... Those working in the mass transit industry call passengers "cattle" for a reason. Roads may have problems but the alternative you're proposing is far worse.

> Roads may have problems but the alternative you're proposing is far worse. Sorry, but "far worse" is simply excessive. Living in a large European city, namely Paris, and having experienced both car and mass transit, I prefer the second option a lot, to the point I sold my car without replacement about 6 years ago after 2 years of barely using it. There is of course the ecological aspects, but even in terms of quali…

Agreed, I find it much more freeing not to have to drive and deal with the various stresses and expenses involved.

I think mostly people are talking at cross purposes though. I too live in a large European city and getting around by car is incredibly constraining (traffic, parking, other drivers etc) while using the public transport system, while not perfect, is smooth in comparison.

However, for less dense areas, eg going on holiday somewhere in the countryside, it is much more convenient to have a car and I suspect that many people are coming from this angle. In those circumstances, I will rent a car as necessary. It doesn’t happen often so I still save in comparison with the cost of owning a car.

Living in sparse suburbs is probably hell without a car. This is partly because of poor town planning but also, I imagine, because a certain set of people want to have that much space. The trouble is that the externalities of the car travel are generally concentrated elsewhere, so it’s a bit unfair.

Re: Tesla FSD Beta tried to kill me last night

#176

Post by jrflowers »

jlmorton wrote: post #171
jrflowers wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the idea that the ability to use both hands to eat chicken nuggets while operating a motor vehicle at speed is so inherently and universally valuable that a person couldn’t possibly believe otherwise.

I always love an Internet take. Currently, Americans spend about 100 billion hours driving every year, which is about 11 million man-years. If you can't see the transformative impacts of freeing up that much time for people to enjoy any other activities, whether it be doing work, reading a book, sleeping, or eating chicken nuggets, then I honestly have no idea what to say.

This makes sense. Why didn’t the man in the car attempting to do a 70mph u turn on a freeway consider the possible saved man hours for society?

If you think about it getting misted because your car plows into oncoming traffic is actually not that bad because some day others will be able to pay $15,000 for DLC in their car that unlocks “road head”. It’s basically on the same level as antibiotics or the Haber-Bosch process in its necessity for the flourishing of mankind

Re: Tesla FSD Beta tried to kill me last night

#177

Post by jlmorton »

mrbadguy wrote: post #173
jlmorton wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always love an Internet take. Currently, Americans spend about 100 billion hours driving every year, which is about 11 million man-years. If you can't see the transformative impacts of freeing up that much time for people to enjoy any other activities, whether it be doing work, reading a book, sleeping, or eating chicken nuggets, then I honestly have no idea what to say.

It might be easier to free up some of those man-years by planning and constructing towns/cities such that people don’t have to drive in them, than developing self driving cars. The two things aren’t even mutually exclusive, you could have a happy, mostly non-car based existence, and then supplement it with a self driving car on the occasion that you really need it (assuming it’s ever achieved).

If you solution begins with "throw away 100 trillion dollars in built-up infrastructure," the idea probably isn't very good.

Re: Tesla FSD Beta tried to kill me last night

#178

Post by jlmorton »

jrflowers wrote: post #176
jlmorton wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always love an Internet take. Currently, Americans spend about 100 billion hours driving every year, which is about 11 million man-years. If you can't see the transformative impacts of freeing up that much time for people to enjoy any other activities, whether it be doing work, reading a book, sleeping, or eating chicken nuggets, then I honestly have no idea what to say.

This makes sense. Why didn’t the man in the car attempting to do a 70mph u turn on a freeway consider the possible saved man hours for society? If you think about it getting misted because your car plows into oncoming traffic is actually not that bad because some day others will be able to pay $15,000 for DLC in their car that unlocks “road head”. It’s basically on the same level as antibiotics or the Haber-Bosch pro…

You can try to minimize it all you want, but indeed it would be transformative.

Somehow, when we build a $2 billion Central Subway in San Francisco, through some of the very densest neighborhoods in all of America, with a realized daily ridership of ~3,000, there are no jokes about how unimportant the train is compared to fertilizer.

Re: Tesla FSD Beta tried to kill me last night

#179

Post by sketch242 »

ForestCritter wrote: post #142
flandish wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? Public mass transit is far more efficient. The push for cars keeps car owners (in the corp and profit sense) alive. Only. Add in the pretend notion that cars equal freedom and it’s just a cycle of energy wasting nonsense. If we (tech fans) really wanted to help alleviate the problems roads have (traffic, accidents, etc) - public mass transit is the way to go. But I guess .. where’s the immediate hype-based p…

says the person who never had to get to work on time across town with public transit...

I used to commute to Chicago from the suburbs and the train was a much more reliable way to arrive at work on time than driving, where traffic made travel time highly variable.

Re: Tesla FSD Beta tried to kill me last night

#180

Post by jrflowers »

jlmorton wrote: post #178
jrflowers wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes sense. Why didn’t the man in the car attempting to do a 70mph u turn on a freeway consider the possible saved man hours for society? If you think about it getting misted because your car plows into oncoming traffic is actually not that bad because some day others will be able to pay $15,000 for DLC in their car that unlocks “road head”. It’s basically on the same level as antibiotics or the Haber-Bosch pro…

You can try to minimize it all you want, but indeed it would be transformative. Somehow, when we build a $2 billion Central Subway in San Francisco, through some of the very densest neighborhoods in all of America, with a realized daily ridership of ~3,000, there are no jokes about how unimportant the train is compared to fertilizer.

> You can try to minimize it all you want

Far too many people are so selfish that they get hung up on questions like “Could this cause death or grevious bodily harm to me or others on the road?” and do not have the ethical fortitude or wherewithal to focus on “What could the abstract concept of ‘transformative’ mean at an unknown point in the future?”

> there are no jokes about how unimportant the train is compared to fertilizer.

This is a good point. There is basically no meaningful difference between a self driving Tesla and a train. The only explanation for why you don’t hear people discussing the myriad times that commuter trains veer into traffic or otherwise behave in dangerous and unpredictable ways must be collective ignorance and hypocrisy.

Post reply on HN