Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla FSD Beta tried to kill me last night

electrek.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 197 posts

Re: Tesla FSD Beta tried to kill me last night

#161

Post by wilg »

justinclift wrote: post #153
wilg wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at Mercedes is foolish IMO. There's no reason to think they have any expertise in this domain. They have some press releases but very little technology to show for themselves. Cruise and Waymo are the other major players here.

> There's no reason to think they have any expertise in this domain. If they're taking a measured approach, and it's working, then it seems like they've either bought in the expertise or managed to develop it. :)

As I said in another reply, there's nothing to suggest they have much other than off-the-shelf parts and some clever marketing.

Re: Tesla FSD Beta tried to kill me last night

#162

Post by tim333 »

gameoverhumans wrote: post #154
tim333 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla say their thing "crashes 0.31 times per million miles, a dramatic decrease from the average American, who crashes 1.53 times every million miles." ( https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-fsd-safety-statistics/#:~:te... .) So maybe we should worry more about the average American?

> Tesla say their thing " " No, I don't believe any of those p-hacked/biased stats that conveniently portray something, that is sold as BETA SOFTWARE by a company with a multi-billion market cap and a world-class marketing division, to be "safer" than an average driver. FWIW I'm also not thrilled with the idea of the average person being permitted to get behind the wheel of a 5 tonne death machine, either. > So maybe…

Well yeah, I don't totally trust Tesla either. On the other hand I think it's very likely self driving tech will become safer than human eventually so it'll work out ok.

Re: Tesla FSD Beta tried to kill me last night

#164

Post by baz00 »

opyate wrote: post #129
baz00 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course the position is malleable. The ideal end game would be a constrained system. So I mean if you put the cars on rails and gave them a dedicated space to run in, which would solve most of the determinism problems that'd be good. And you could possibly stuck a few of them together to increase overall capacity and efficiency too. We might then have a solution that's possible to execute FSD reliably on.

What's this about automated cars on rails? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Docklands_Light_Railway

That was exactly my point

Re: Tesla FSD Beta tried to kill me last night

#165

Post by kakwa_ »

userbinator wrote: post #130
flandish wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? Public mass transit is far more efficient. The push for cars keeps car owners (in the corp and profit sense) alive. Only. Add in the pretend notion that cars equal freedom and it’s just a cycle of energy wasting nonsense. If we (tech fans) really wanted to help alleviate the problems roads have (traffic, accidents, etc) - public mass transit is the way to go. But I guess .. where’s the immediate hype-based p…

Add in the pretend notion that cars equal freedom and it’s just a cycle of energy wasting nonsense. It is freedom. Life is "energy wasting" too, but don't let that get in the way of ideological virtue-signaling... Those working in the mass transit industry call passengers "cattle" for a reason. Roads may have problems but the alternative you're proposing is far worse.

> Roads may have problems but the alternative you're proposing is far worse.

Sorry, but "far worse" is simply excessive.

Living in a large European city, namely Paris, and having experienced both car and mass transit, I prefer the second option a lot, to the point I sold my car without replacement about 6 years ago after 2 years of barely using it.

There is of course the ecological aspects, but even in terms of quality of life, I much prefer public transports: it's cheaper, it's less stressful, it's more predictable and I'm able to do other things like reading while transiting.

By comparison, in this context (dense urban area), cars, with their needs (maintenance, parking, etc) are actually more constrain than freedom.

And that's not like I'm a unique case, most of my colleagues either use public transports or (e)bikes, car users are a minority (~20%).

In Paris, there is even a large proportion of the population who didn't even have a driving license at all.

Doesn't it means that mass transit is the perfect solution? no. But in dense urban area, it's probably the best compromise.

Re: Tesla FSD Beta tried to kill me last night

#166

Post by andrewaylett »

crubier wrote: post #35

Tesla gets a lot of Flak, but all driving assistance systems in commercial cars today that I tried are wayyy more terrible. My long term rental Nissan Rogue lane following system tries to kill me multiple times a day, and only disconnects with an alarm 2seconds+ after leaving the lanes.

The biggest difference is that with pretty much every car that's not a Tesla, the driver still needs to drive the car. That's true for the Tesla, too, but "full self-driving" makes it sound like it's different.

Mercedes brought out their first actual self-driving car a few months ago. Unlike driver assistance, where the driver is expected to retain control at all times, it will give at least ten seconds notice -- so you're allowed to take your hands off the wheel, read a book, or watch a video. But it will only let you turn it on in very restricted circumstances.

Re: Tesla FSD Beta tried to kill me last night

#167

Post by TheCleric »

sebzim4500 wrote: post #159
TheCleric wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure this will go fine since it's not like we have a track record of people dying in Teslas, with Tesla taking zero accountability, and withholding the crash data from open scrutiny. This experiment is sure to be unbiased.

That's why the data should be collected by a government department rather than Tesla

I agree it should, but good luck getting Elon to cooperate to gather the necessary data points (e.g., was FSD enabled?).

Re: Tesla FSD Beta tried to kill me last night

#168

Post by Tempest1981 »

sebzim4500 wrote: post #158
Waterluvian wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love this “logic.” You can do something wrong but if it works out, hey, it’s fine right? This also creates a wonderfully sloppy veil. Hey it’s proven safe. So we’re going to go ahead and fuck with the settings more.”

If it improves safety then it isn't wrong

I think the point is that if it's "proven" safer today, the manufacturer can then make changes and test publicly, and be absolved of responsibility if there are regressions.

Re: Tesla FSD Beta tried to kill me last night

#169

Post by Tempest1981 »

sebzim4500 wrote: post #159
TheCleric wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure this will go fine since it's not like we have a track record of people dying in Teslas, with Tesla taking zero accountability, and withholding the crash data from open scrutiny. This experiment is sure to be unbiased.

That's why the data should be collected by a government department rather than Tesla

How quickly can the governments detect a regression? Weeks or months later?

The claim here is that an overnight minor update from v11.4.4 to v11.4.7 caused a significant regression.

Re: Tesla FSD Beta tried to kill me last night

#170

Post by presto8 »

wilg wrote: post #160
Tepix wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you aware that Mercedes has L3 (in limited circumstances) rolled out already?

Yes, far as I can tell, it's mostly a marketing gimmick. I think it works below 40mph in stop-and-go traffic on Nevada freeways, and doesn't do any navigation and just stays in its lane. They can put out a press release about "L3" all they want, but there's nothing to suggest this is more than an off-the-shelf ADAS/LKAS with some additional driver monitoring. This is not the type of technology or strategy you see any…

Mercedes is taking legal liability for all actions of the car while it is in L3 autonomous mode, which Mercedes calls "Drive Pilot." That feels like more than a marketing gimmick, especially since no other automakers have assumed liability like this (that I know of). I am in stop-and-go traffic on the highway all the time during rush hour, it would still be beneficial to just read a book or work on my laptop while the car drives, even in that limited circumstance.
Post reply on HN