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My Caste

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Re: My Caste

#441

Post by cscurmudgeon »

aildours wrote: post #201

Consider reading [1] (also linked in OP) for a detailed article about a very talented lower caste person who gets hired at IIT Kanpur, only to be met with overt caste-based discrimination and harassment. You'd find it hard to claim caste-based discrimination doesn't exist after reading it. On a perhaps unrelated note, the author is Manindra Agarwal, who you may know as the A in the AKS primality test. [1]: https://ka…

Also consider reading that caste violence is also directed at upper castes from lower castes. It is not a one sided thing. Left-leaning ruling party politicians in a state have shamefully called for a brahmin (upper caste) genocide.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste-related_violence_in_Indi...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Brahminism

https://www.deccanherald.com/india/dmk-spokesperson-supports...

Re: My Caste

#442

Post by yedava »

raincom wrote: post #437
yedava wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just because some book says "people from X varna should do certain job", who is enforcing it? Hindu dharma is not driven by any particular book, but is simply the dominant sociopolitical system in the Indian sub-continent. A political system with a tiny elite controlling the rest is inherently unstable (think monarchies or communism) whereas a political system which distributes its elites tends to be stable. That i…

No one has described the so-called sociopolitical system and its dynamic (how it reproduces). What we have speculative accounts, ad hoc in nature. Let's look at endogamy. "A caste is an endogamous group, or collection of endogamous groups, bearing a common name, membership of which is hereditary, arising from birth alone; imposing on its members certain restrictions in the matter of social intercourse; either (i) fol…

Up until a decade or two ago, rhetoric was an extremely effective tool when it came to denying the origins of caste. But with genetic evidence piling up, such positions are simply untenable[1]. As to why certain social institutions endure for so long, it's for the same reason why monarchies had endured even longer than caste endogamy has.

https://www.brownpundits.com/2018/06/07/genetical-observatio...

Re: My Caste

#443

Post by raincom »

yedava wrote: post #442
raincom wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one has described the so-called sociopolitical system and its dynamic (how it reproduces). What we have speculative accounts, ad hoc in nature. Let's look at endogamy. "A caste is an endogamous group, or collection of endogamous groups, bearing a common name, membership of which is hereditary, arising from birth alone; imposing on its members certain restrictions in the matter of social intercourse; either (i) fol…

Up until a decade or two ago, rhetoric was an extremely effective tool when it came to denying the origins of caste. But with genetic evidence piling up, such positions are simply untenable[1]. As to why certain social institutions endure for so long, it's for the same reason why monarchies had endured even longer than caste endogamy has. https://www.brownpundits.com/2018/06/07/genetical-observatio...

Endogamy fails when the ratio of males to females in a group is not 1:1, a simple mathematical fact. Many castes have disappeared, many emerged. Genetical evidence just show that people prefer to marry within that particular sub-caste, but it is not a constituent property of caste--let alone a system of castes. If we apply this logic (endogamy meausurement), castes existed in other continents, countries far away from India. In that case, we see a phenomenon not unique to India.

BTW, I am not denying that practices exist, practices are continued, even modified. Nor am I denying that jaatis-exist. I am not even denying that there are fights between different jaatis at different places. There is a difference between phenomena and explanations(descriptions). Over the time, theory-laden descriptions of phenomena start replacing the very phenomena. That facts are theory-laden or that facts are facts of a theory--is not some rhetoric.

Once caste-system (sociopolitical system, as you put), a theoretical entity, is postulated to explain various phenomena, now all these phenomena are re-described using this language. When I deny these re-descriptions, you seem to think that I am denying phenomena (for example, people prefer intra-jaati marriages), as you call this denial of re-descriptions as rhetoric.

Practices exist, jaatis exist, various phenomena exist, does the caste-system exist?

Re: My Caste

#444

Post by newusertoday »

mmmmmbop wrote: post #418
newusertoday wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it also strikes you odd that asians represent far more percentage in IT jobs than their representative population? it can be explained in number of ways, mostly immigrant population, self selected population that is privileged to have money to come overseas, culture of emphasis on education than rest of the population etc. So while striking odd part is correct. Assuming that only explanation is discrimination is…

This is a strange comment. You're pretending I hold some opinion about the participation of Asians in the IT sector in the US, and then proceed to explain why that opinion is wrong, all the while never answering my question about the topic at hand. For reference, the comparison to Asians in the US job market seems misplaced. From the numbers I found, the representation of Asians in admissions, industry and faculty se…

i was giving you example where data would give you the impression that something is odd but there are reasonable explanations for its oddity.

| For reference, the comparison to Asians in the US job market seems misplaced. | I didn't find detailed numbers for IT specifically.

It would be good to share the sources since you already did the hard work of finding them so that we can scrutinize it as well.

OP is claiming 50% of population of india and not IIT students.

Re: My Caste

#445

Post by Viliam1234 »

hef19898 wrote: post #439
Viliam1234 wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Schhol shootings in the US, Neo-Nazis in East Germany, islamist terrorists. They all have in common of being, over simplifying, frustrated, in secure young men. Isn't the same also true about e.g. protests against the Vietnam War, or... probably about almost all protests ever. Young men are more likely to stand up and actually do something. Sometimes good things, sometimes bad things.

You arw not seriously throwing in anti-war protesters and civil rights advocates in the same bucket as the groups I mentioned, are you?

Both are "things that young frustrated men do". Why only attribute the bad things to certain demographics?

Re: My Caste

#446

Post by AmIDev »

ghotli wrote: post #272

I hope this comes across as me being merely ignorant of the situation on the ground in India but I do have a question. I've seen caste based discrimination here in America first hand. It's gross and I have absolutely no patience with those participating in it. If I were to go to India with this attitude, would I be met with compatriots that also have zero interest in putting up with it? Is there a reason that such a…

Name is not the only thing that gives away one's caste/religion. For example, my ear being pierced gives away that I am a Hindu. The specific dialect I speak gives away where I belong from, which statistically brings me to 2-3 castes. The food I eat(e.g. I eat chicken but not pork) or the festivals I celebrate will give away the rest.

Re: My Caste

#447

Post by mrg3_2013 »

adjav wrote: post #344
mrg3_2013 wrote: post #240

I have never heard or felt anyone talk about caste in my 25 years in US. I work with both academia as well as industry.

They may not have talked about it to you , but that doesn't mean they didn't talk about it at all.

Exactly how made-up issues are created. Vocal minority fallacy

Re: My Caste

#448

Post by mrg3_2013 »

usr8new wrote: post #348
mrg3_2013 wrote: post #240

I have never heard or felt anyone talk about caste in my 25 years in US. I work with both academia as well as industry.

In the US, caste is mostly a made up issue. Most 95% Indian Americans are upper caste or rich land owning OBCs (like the professor who wrote this blog). Who exactly are they discriminating against then? Lot of grifters like Equality Labs have made this issue in US bigger than it seems. Most Indian American kids probably don't even know their own caste.

Agree with you.

Re: My Caste

#449

Post by jcparkyn »

moralestapia wrote: post #420
jcparkyn wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you are also making your own claim, by asserting with absolute confidence that caste-based discrimination doesn't exist. If you were just questioning the reasoning of the author, then sure, the burden of proof would be with them. Also, this is not a courtroom.

>(emphasis) while the other party has no such burden and is presumed to be correct Posting this sentence for the third time. I am on the "presumably correct" side. >Also, this is not a courtroom. Why is that important?

You completely missed my point. You aren't "the other party" once you start making claims of your own.

"I can assure you that caste had absolutely nothing to do with OPs election..."

If your argument was just "there's not enough evidence to conclude that..." then I would agree with you.

> Why is that important?

Because you're trying to apply a convention from the context of legal disputes to something that isn't a legal dispute. Do you also ask HN commenters to go through a discovery process?

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