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My Caste

cs.toronto.edu

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Re: My Caste

#411

Post by rramadass »

SandraBucky wrote: post #391

I came across a decent journalism by "The Swaddle" recently, they discuss how upper caste social capital translates to merit in multiple arenas of life in India. They looked into IITs and made the following piece. https://theswaddle.com/the-deserving-and-the-damned/ This also sheds some light into state of startups and people behind it, as more than 60% Indian unicorns has at-least one of their founder from an IIT. h…

Thanks for the links, they seem pretty decent. However the phrase Correlation does not imply Causation needs to be kept in mind when reading these types of articles.

You might find the links in my comment here also useful - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37333418

Re: My Caste

#412

Post by rramadass »

hnxx wrote: post #377

I work with some Indian colleagues, and when I heard something about the caste system, I decided to look up some of my colleagues' names. I found that most of them come from higher-ranked castes, while a few are from lower-ranked ones. However, I can confidently say that all of them excel in their jobs. I hope that both the Indian people and the government can take more steps to promote equality. The current situatio…

>I hope that both the Indian people and the government can take more steps to promote equality. The current situation is unfair to those from lower-ranked castes and a huge waste of human potential.

It is exactly such simplistic viewpoints that allow various vested interests/grifters/charlatans to exploit/game the "Caste" issue in the US (and other Western countries). There has been more done to redress social inequalities (including caste-based) after India's independence than Westerners are aware of (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reservation_in_India). In urban India it is not much of an issue since only the almighty "Money" counts and nothing else.

You might also find the link to a study done by Carnegie Endowment on Indian-Americans here useful - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37333418

Re: My Caste

#413

Post by rramadass »

HDMI_Cable wrote: post #366

I’m the descendant of Indian immigrants, but is someone who grew up in North America, speaks English as my first language, and is very westernized—I wouldn’t even consider myself Indian to any respect, except for my heritage. I’ve never experienced caste discrimination (through I think I come from a high caste). But, I recognize that my experience is likely different, and probably slanted by my caste status in compar…

You might find the link to a study done by Carnegie Endowment on Indian-Americans here useful - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37333418

Re: My Caste

#414

Post by rramadass »

screye wrote: post #302

As a fellow OBC, I am not sure I like the idea of reclaiming caste. The author wrote his post from an inspiring standpoint, so my comment does not come from a place of criticism. His achievement is worth celebrating on its own grounds. ____ It's been 6 years for me in the US, and no one has asked me my caste. Even in India, the only time someone could have inferred my caste, was when someone indirectly asked my unive…

You might find the Carnegie Endowment article on Indian-Americans in my comment here useful - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37333418

Re: My Caste

#415

Post by Dreako »

ghotli wrote: post #272

I hope this comes across as me being merely ignorant of the situation on the ground in India but I do have a question. I've seen caste based discrimination here in America first hand. It's gross and I have absolutely no patience with those participating in it. If I were to go to India with this attitude, would I be met with compatriots that also have zero interest in putting up with it? Is there a reason that such a…

"Why don't people just change their names to the caste they want to be"

most people don't see themselves as lower caste, they have extreme pride in their caste and ancestry, people aren't ashamed of that

ground reality is different from stuff you see online

Re: My Caste

#416

Post by jcparkyn »

moralestapia wrote: post #368
tremon wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You: > I can assure you that caste had absolutely nothing to do with OPs election/non-election Also you: > the burden of proof does not lie on me You made very strong claims in your opening post. Asking you to provide some proof to support those claims is perfectly valid.

Read. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(law) >In a legal dispute, one party has the burden of proof to show that they are correct, while the other party has no such burden and is presumed to be correct. >(emphasis) while the other party has no such burden and is presumed to be correct >The burden of proof is usually on the person who brings a claim in a dispute. In case it's not clear, I'm not OP, I did…

But you are also making your own claim, by asserting with absolute confidence that caste-based discrimination doesn't exist. If you were just questioning the reasoning of the author, then sure, the burden of proof would be with them.

Also, this is not a courtroom.

Re: My Caste

#417

Post by hef19898 »

cududa wrote: post #267
hef19898 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Schhol shootings in the US, Neo-Nazis in East Germany, islamist terrorists. They all have in common of being, over simplifying, frustrated, in secure young men. They are easily manipulated by populists and ideologists, prone to use violence and prone to be sexist, racist etc. I guess that is becaise the way they see themselves, or what they think society expects them to be, is something they do not get. Hence the inc…

So, I think I agree with part of what you're saying. But I can't exactly grasp your logic. I'd like to understand. Let's use white male young men school shooters in the US. OP > So in retaliation, they began organizing their own Castes to fight for political power and quotas. You > the way they see themselves, or what they think society expects them to be, is something they do not get. Hence the incredible amount of…

>> What I'm interpreting your comments as, is that people should just "stay in their lane"/ caste/ station at birth and not cause trouble/ accept their rung of society

If ypu read my other comments on caste systeks and discrimination, it becomes clear that is the exact opposite of what I mean.

The solution is not for everyone else to adapt around the greavances of frustrated individuals and groups that cannot adapt to change. The task is on those frustrated individuals to find ways to adapt whatever they have adapting to in a changinf society, because the only these large changes can be surpressed is by oppressing others. We all know where that ends.

Those frustrated young men (and it is mostly men) so, they are actually in a pretty bad spot. Those that actually act on those feelings are just plain pathetic so, the others, well, society owes them some form of support. Just don't ask me what kind of support so.

The much much worse proboem so is the people in power, read populist and nationalist movement and political leader along with their religious counterparts, that use those men to further their own goals of power. More often than not, that use ends in violence and death. No idea what can be done about that neither, other than voting for parties that are not like that and keep tbose radicals out of government and power as much as possible. And that approach doesn't always work neither, nor is it even possible in a lot of places.

And no, I wont stay in a lane someone else put me in just because it would hurt that other persons feelings. And neither should anyone else, ever.

Re: My Caste

#418

Post by mmmmmbop »

newusertoday wrote: post #402
mmmmmbop wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know very little about the caste system, but it does strike me as odd that only 1 in 180 professors is from a group representing 50% of the population. It becomes even more suspicious if there's a quota for admissions as you say. At some point between admission and tenure, there seems to be a great filter. How do you explain that, if not for discrimination?

Does it also strikes you odd that asians represent far more percentage in IT jobs than their representative population? it can be explained in number of ways, mostly immigrant population, self selected population that is privileged to have money to come overseas, culture of emphasis on education than rest of the population etc. So while striking odd part is correct. Assuming that only explanation is discrimination is…

This is a strange comment. You're pretending I hold some opinion about the participation of Asians in the IT sector in the US, and then proceed to explain why that opinion is wrong, all the while never answering my question about the topic at hand.

For reference, the comparison to Asians in the US job market seems misplaced.

From the numbers I found, the representation of Asians in admissions, industry and faculty seems to line up pretty accurately. They represent 10-11% of STEM students, 13% of STEM workers, and 11% of STEM professors. I didn't find detailed numbers for IT specifically.

On the other hand, according to what was written in this thread, OBC people represent 50% of IIT students, but only 1/180 or about 0.6% of IIT professors.

Re: My Caste

#419

Post by mmmmmbop »

vGPU wrote: post #346
mmmmmbop wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know very little about the caste system, but it does strike me as odd that only 1 in 180 professors is from a group representing 50% of the population. It becomes even more suspicious if there's a quota for admissions as you say. At some point between admission and tenure, there seems to be a great filter. How do you explain that, if not for discrimination?

Not so much deliberate as just being a matter of supply, from what I understand. > “teachers and mentors specialising in science are rare in the rural high schools attended by these students, especially Adivasis,” Sonajharia Minz, a computer scientist and vice-chancellor of Sido Kanhu Murmu University in Dumka, was quoted as saying.

That would make sense, except it was mentioned elsewhere on this thread that there is a 50% quota for OBC people at IITs.

Are you saying that OBC are so far behind their peers at the time of admission that only 0.6% (1 in 180, as mentioned in OP) of those 50% manage to catch up academically?

That's really hard for me to believe.

Re: My Caste

#420

Post by moralestapia »

jcparkyn wrote: post #416
moralestapia wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(law) >In a legal dispute, one party has the burden of proof to show that they are correct, while the other party has no such burden and is presumed to be correct. >(emphasis) while the other party has no such burden and is presumed to be correct >The burden of proof is usually on the person who brings a claim in a dispute. In case it's not clear, I'm not OP, I did…

But you are also making your own claim, by asserting with absolute confidence that caste-based discrimination doesn't exist. If you were just questioning the reasoning of the author, then sure, the burden of proof would be with them. Also, this is not a courtroom.

>(emphasis) while the other party has no such burden and is presumed to be correct

Posting this sentence for the third time. I am on the "presumably correct" side.

>Also, this is not a courtroom.

Why is that important?

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