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My Caste

cs.toronto.edu

361–370 of 451 posts

Re: My Caste

#361
post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is why the enormous amount of energy directed at reservations when there are mountains of evidence that corruption is several orders of magnitude more destructive? It's an elephant vs an ant in the room thing. You ignore the elephant and think the ant is causing systemic malaise. Why is that? Is it because Hindu dharma dictates that certain classes are meant to do certain jobs? Like a person availing reserva…

Both incompetence and corruption need to be fixed. Incompetence from the rationality perspective [1], corruption from the systems perspective. Just because some book says "people from X varna should do certain job", who is enforcing it? Now you can say that Brahmins haven't taught Vedas to non-brahmins. Come on, who wants to recite Vedas today? History showed us that many Sudra kings ruled; what does it show? That on…

> Just because some book says "people from X varna should do certain job", who is enforcing it?

Hindu dharma is not driven by any particular book, but is simply the dominant sociopolitical system in the Indian sub-continent. A political system with a tiny elite controlling the rest is inherently unstable (think monarchies or communism) whereas a political system which distributes its elites tends to be stable. That is what the caste system is. Each jati had its own ruling body and social structure. And then there were broader rules which governed how jatis interact, which is where the varnas come in.

Now how do you maintain this political system if people are free to leave a jati or intermarry with another jati willy-nilly? You can't. That is why caste endogamy is so strictly enforced (and often violently) in the sub-continent. And the endogamy dates back to like from 2000 years ago. This socio-political system is so fundamental a building block of the sub-contient that even Muslims and Christians follow it unlike in other parts of the world.

The other problem to solve in this jati system is that how do you keep some jati doing the dirty or undesirable jobs? This is where the concept of karma comes in. Some people can get away with murder because that's just how the universe works. They will get their just desserts in the next life.

Given all that, people who grow up in such a culture carry some biases pretty strongly. Like if a guy gets into medical college due to reservation, but earns the degree like everyone else in his class - by you know completing all the course requirements - he is still not qualified to treat people. The bad karma sticks around. That is how the enforcement works. The cultural beliefs do it.

Re: My Caste

#362
post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It mostly doesn’t. Historically there have been lots of mass conversions to other religions the first one being Buddhism in 600BC. Buddhism came about primarily as a response to Hindu orthodoxy and the caste system.

What does "doesn't" mean? Would I, random Dutch person of christianity or no religion as you will, be treated equal to the highest of castes or to an average one for example?

You’re a foreigner/outsider. You’re not part of the caste system. Brahmins are technically not even permitted to leave India. But if you’re white you would probably be treated very well, just wouldn’t be considered a part of society.

Re: My Caste

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It mostly doesn’t. Historically there have been lots of mass conversions to other religions the first one being Buddhism in 600BC. Buddhism came about primarily as a response to Hindu orthodoxy and the caste system.

That’s a severe bit of historical revisionism from Europeans who tried to analogize it to the Protestant reformation. If anything Buddhists were probably more concertedly discriminatory towards lower castes and Hindu Brahmins were more likely to be socially reformist. Groups like the Veerashaivas were concertedly anti-caste discrimination but the Buddhists were decidedly not. They’d be more like a Kshatriya revolt ag…

You’re right that it was more of a kshatriya revolt against the Brahmins but the Buddhists welcomed all castes, even the shudras. They did discriminate against anyone that wasn’t a part of the caste hierarchy- dalits.

Re: My Caste

#365
I would like to point out that author is a liar and dishonest. He claims he is "OBC" which is not really a caste but rather a legal classification for affirmative action.

Author's name is Meel, which indicates he is actually from the upper caste named Jats who historically have been landlords, kings and such. No one considered Jats as OBC until very recently in 2016 where this dominant caste members caused massive riots and street violence to demand such legal classification so they could benefit from affirmative action in government jobs.

This is literally like the thieves from San Fransisco calling themselves victims of capitalism after robbing local Macy's.

Re: My Caste

#366
I’m the descendant of Indian immigrants, but is someone who grew up in North America, speaks English as my first language, and is very westernized—I wouldn’t even consider myself Indian to any respect, except for my heritage.

I’ve never experienced caste discrimination (through I think I come from a high caste). But, I recognize that my experience is likely different, and probably slanted by my caste status in comparison to recent Indian immigrants.

I was wondering if any other Indian diaspora or Indian immigrants to North America could chime in with what they’ve experienced: have you faced any caste discrimination?

Re: My Caste

#367
post #45

The caste system in India is layered like onions. The author says he was born as OBC (Other Backward Classes), but that's not the lowest in the overall scheme. SC (Scheduled Castes) are considered lower in the hierarchy. ST (Scheduled Tribes) are considered even lower (there are variations across states and regions, so please take this with a pinch of salt). While the atrocities and punishments by "upper" caste peopl…

Isn’t Narendra Modi, the Indian prime minister from an OBC? I don’t think he makes a secret of it

Re: My Caste

#368
post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we are being pedantic, the burden of proof does not lie on me. I didn't publish AND promote a blog post where I feared not getting my current job because of some social dynamic that happens to exist 12,500km from where I am right now. You should ask OP to provide evidence of caste discrimination in Canada , at this particular University .

You: > I can assure you that caste had absolutely nothing to do with OPs election/non-election Also you: > the burden of proof does not lie on me You made very strong claims in your opening post. Asking you to provide some proof to support those claims is perfectly valid.

Read.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(law)

>In a legal dispute, one party has the burden of proof to show that they are correct, while the other party has no such burden and is presumed to be correct.

>(emphasis) while the other party has no such burden and is presumed to be correct

>The burden of proof is usually on the person who brings a claim in a dispute.

In case it's not clear, I'm not OP, I did not write TFA.

Re: My Caste

#369
post #272

I hope this comes across as me being merely ignorant of the situation on the ground in India but I do have a question. I've seen caste based discrimination here in America first hand. It's gross and I have absolutely no patience with those participating in it. If I were to go to India with this attitude, would I be met with compatriots that also have zero interest in putting up with it? Is there a reason that such a…

Well India is place where people compete to be identified as backward caste so they can get reservations/quota in colleges/jobs etc.

This article is written precisely for Western audience who wouldn't know these OBC are among extremely powerful part of political establishment. Reading this article one can imagine these people must be suffering unimaginable atrocities. One who lives in India knows in fact OBCs are largest group inflicting atrocities on actual lower castes which SCs/STs.

Its a problem not easy to solve. Governments all over India have strict laws against Dalit atrocities. But political considerations and uneven enforcement does not help people that are supposed to benefit from these laws.

Another big factor is India being poor country there are not enough material resources as West so lower castes can be given ample support to progress without taking away significant resources from others. This situation just causes more resentment across board.

Re: My Caste

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is form of discrimination. But it’s not racism. Just like sexism is not racism.

Race is an ambiguous delineation of a tribe someone might belong to. Sex, age, etc are more defined delineations. Who is to say the 1.3B population of Indians does not have multiple races? They might all be the same tribe in the eyes of a person with ancestors from Europe, born and raised in the US. But for someone in India, they very well could view the other 1.29B Indians as being in tribes as different as “white”…

Race in the US is not a “socioeconomic tribe”. You said it yourself, it’s based on physical features. That’s not what a caste is.
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