self inflicted wound that became a blog post. Stop playing Victim card. Modi PM of India is an OBC, so is the CM of UP.
yeah, I felt the same
My Caste
241–250 of 451 posts
Re: My Caste
#242Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If you're trying to hint at some "it happens all the time, it's just hidden from public view", it doesn't. > Non-Indians literally don't care These are contradicting statements. We know non-Indians don't care ... because most of us don't even know about it, at least in any capacity to have a strong opinion. Maybe non-Indians "literally" not caring is why "it's just hidden from public view"
By "don't care", I didn't mean "they know but don't care"; I meant "non-Indians are completely oblivious of this". You cannot accuse of someone behaving in a discriminatory way if those very concepts of discrimination don't even exist in their mind. Come on.
You are entirely missing my point. What I'm saying is the concept of caste discrimination doesn't exist in the minds of the vast majority of Westerners. Which would enable the exact scenario you pose:
> If you're trying to hint at some "it happens all the time, it's just hidden from public view", it doesn't.
How would anyone outside the caste system be aware of it occurring? And why would people benefiting from their caste talk about it?
Re: My Caste
#243Earlier quoted context omitted.
Since this is about Google, where I worked: > The Google spokesperson said that caste discrimination has “no place in our workplace and it’s prohibited in our policies.” I can testify that Ads was very heavily Indian, much more than the general employee percentages would predict. I don't know if it still is. Sridhar Ramaswamy ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sridhar_Ramaswamy ) probably had something to do with that.…
> So is that "discrimination?" Yes, absolutely. It may be passive and unconscious, but it's still discrimination. I bet a lot of more-than-qualified candidates -- many likely even more qualified than the people who ended up getting hired -- were rejected. Unless you're going to assert that Indian people are uniquely the most qualified and best at building advertising systems (which I hope we can agree would be an abs…
> Canadians aren't a racial group (and a Canadian may be white, black, native, Asian, Indian, whatever), so I don't think this particular example has anything to do with the rest of what you're talking about.
They're not, but it has absolutely everything to do with it. As you agreed (I think): People tend to refer their friends. Canadians often went to the same schools (Waterloo, McGill, UBC) and if you asked one about another one, quite possibly they'd know someone who knew him or her.
Re: My Caste
#244Earlier quoted context omitted.
You didn't get the point of my comment. "Caste" is meaningless here. Edit: @cududa's comment was something like "care to share what caste you were born into?" to which I replied what you see here and then he altered his comment substantially. Sneaky.
The updated post makes sense - you say caste has nothing to do with anything but you may not be in a position to judge. Especially if all your Indian friends are of the same caste, even if that’s accidentally so.
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Re: My Caste
#245Phew, what a post. I am at University of Toronto right now. I have only been here for some months but I have seen enough things to get a sense of the "politics" of the place. Also, I've been in many of the world's top universities (Caltech, Cornell, KAUST, Oxford, Stanford, UNAM, and some others with less pompous names); either studying, visiting, working, w/e. I've been doing this for close to 20 years now. I know a…
> So, to readers here, I can assure you that caste had absolutely nothing to do with OPs election/non-election as a faculty member
That's a strong claim to make for someone who was not at all involved in the process.
Re: My Caste
#246Earlier quoted context omitted.
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What "sort of problems" do you mean, exactly?
Schhol shootings in the US, Neo-Nazis in East Germany, islamist terrorists. They all have in common of being, over simplifying, frustrated, in secure young men.
They are easily manipulated by populists and ideologists, prone to use violence and prone to be sexist, racist etc. I guess that is becaise the way they see themselves, or what they think society expects them to be, is something they do not get. Hence the incredible amount of frustration. Frustration that breeds, especially when combined with a sense of entitlement and inhrained superiority, radicals like nothing else. Bonus points if thes can see themselves as the victims, conspiracy theories go a long way in building some groups conspiring against them.
Re: My Caste
#247Earlier quoted context omitted.
By "don't care", I didn't mean "they know but don't care"; I meant "non-Indians are completely oblivious of this". You cannot accuse of someone behaving in a discriminatory way if those very concepts of discrimination don't even exist in their mind. Come on.
You are entirely missing my point. What I'm saying is the concept of caste discrimination doesn't exist in the minds of the vast majority of Westerners. Which would enable the exact scenario you pose: > If you're trying to hint at some "it happens all the time, it's just hidden from public view", it doesn't. How would anyone outside the caste system be aware of it occurring? And why would people benefiting from their…
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Re: My Caste
#248Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just because people from outside the caste system cannot spot it, and it is much jarder to spot than say discrmination against people of color or women, doesn't mean caste based discrimination isn't every single bit as racist as all other forms of racism.
It is form of discrimination. But it’s not racism. Just like sexism is not racism.
Race is an ambiguous delineation of a tribe someone might belong to.
Sex, age, etc are more defined delineations.
Who is to say the 1.3B population of Indians does not have multiple races? They might all be the same tribe in the eyes of a person with ancestors from Europe, born and raised in the US. But for someone in India, they very well could view the other 1.29B Indians as being in tribes as different as “white” and “black” tribes in the US.
Note that racism is not skin color-ism, since a very light skinned descendent of a darker skinner person is also, commonly, referred to as being “black”, especially if they have obvious physical traits that display they have “black” ancestors.
Race in the US (and other parts of the developed world) is about the socioeconomic tribe that the one belongs to, or that one’s network (including ancestors) belong to. That seems very similar to castes in India.
Re: My Caste
#249Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wonder how that sits with the diversity and inclusion directives that are everywhere now. Maybe they turn a blind eye when it suits them, or use other teams to offset the difference.
idk, but there's always a question of how big a unit you look at when computing ethnic percentages. Does a group of 10 have to have 5 women, 3 POC's, and one LGBT? Or can you measure DEI only for very large groups, like the whole company? Probably for the government, it's the entire company, or maybe each large strata of it.
For a team of 10 I absolutely agree that you're probably not going to get that fine-grained, and you'll probably look at larger groups of 100 or more.
But it still can be useful to spot-check smaller teams. If that team of 10 is, say, 100% male, or 100% Chinese, maybe that's something that deserves a second look. Not with guns-blazing, "you all are obviously sexist/racist", but... a second look, nonetheless.
Re: My Caste
#250How do foreigners / non-Hindus fit into the caste system? Are there caste equivalent attitudes towards Arabs, Euros, East Asians and so on? Or from a different angle, Muslims, Christians, irreligious, etc. Or does the framework not apply to those outside of the Hindu community?
It mostly doesn’t. Historically there have been lots of mass conversions to other religions the first one being Buddhism in 600BC. Buddhism came about primarily as a response to Hindu orthodoxy and the caste system.
>Buddhism came about primarily as a response to Hindu orthodoxy and the caste system.
AFAIK, it did not. It came about from the Buddha's teachings, which were not about caste, but about suffering and its cessation via attaining nirvana (but I am not an expert on Buddhism; we only learned some about it in school).
My guess is that, instead, later, many people may have converted to it, maybe some due to orthodoxy.
I am talking about olden times. In recent times, neo-Buddhists definitely may have converted due to the caste system. I have read something about that earlier. See Dr. Ambedkar.