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My Caste

cs.toronto.edu

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Re: My Caste

#181

Post by alephnerd »

yttribium wrote: post #179
alephnerd wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is OBC (Other Backwards Castes) was invented as a populist measure in 1992. After Independence, Affirmative Action/Reservation was created so Dalits and Nomadic Tribes who were traditionally outcastes in South Asian society could be integrated into society. Yet, in the 1980s-90s, Agrarian and Feudal Caste politicians like Mulayam Singh Yadav (Yadav), Lalu Prasad Yadav (Yadav), Chaudhary Charan Singh (Jatt),…

Identical phenomenon exists in US where groups with well above average incomes are considered officially "disadvantaged groups" for purposes of eg SBA loans.

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Re: My Caste

#182

Post by darth_avocado »

rhaway84773 wrote: post #123
darth_avocado wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The numbers could be right, but you couldn’t exactly argue discrimination tbh. 27% seats are reserved for OBC students in IITs There is a similar quota for people in OBC categories in govt jobs (which IIT professors are). Maybe there are plenty of OBC professors, but not in CS? Or that they don’t openly identify as OBC? Or maybe, people just don’t qualify/apply to the position?

Lol and why don’t they qualify? Because of centuries of discrimination that has kept them poorer and less educated. You might be able to argue that there is no discrimination today and that the hiring process itself is not discriminatory, but the outcomes are entirely the result of discrimination in society.

> Because of centuries of discrimination that has kept them poorer and less educated

No one is denying this. But there has been a reservation of seats for SC and ST categories for about 80 years and for OBC category for 40+ years in education. The reservation in govt job openings exists since the 80s. How can you reasonably argue that the outcomes are entirely the result of discrimination in society?

Re: My Caste

#183

Post by AlbertCory »

za3faran wrote: post #154
AlbertCory wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since this is about Google, where I worked: > The Google spokesperson said that caste discrimination has “no place in our workplace and it’s prohibited in our policies.” I can testify that Ads was very heavily Indian, much more than the general employee percentages would predict. I don't know if it still is. Sridhar Ramaswamy ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sridhar_Ramaswamy ) probably had something to do with that.…

I wonder how that sits with the diversity and inclusion directives that are everywhere now. Maybe they turn a blind eye when it suits them, or use other teams to offset the difference.

idk, but there's always a question of how big a unit you look at when computing ethnic percentages. Does a group of 10 have to have 5 women, 3 POC's, and one LGBT? Or can you measure DEI only for very large groups, like the whole company?

Probably for the government, it's the entire company, or maybe each large strata of it.

Re: My Caste

#184

Post by [deleted] »

[deleted] wrote: post #132
alephnerd wrote: post #29

Depends on the region too. Part of my family is from a landowning/feudal caste (Chaudhary/Jatt and Pahari) that is traditionally Upper Caste but successfully lobbied to become counted as OBC/Lower Caste in order to avail affirmative action benefits. The Jatts side got reservation thanks to Congress [0] and the Pahari side got reservation thanks to the BJP [1] Edit: Lmfao this professor (Kuldeep Meel) is Jatt from His…

[deleted]

[deleted]

Re: My Caste

#185

Post by LambdaComplex »

911e wrote: post #42

This caste problems continue in the US, instead of leaving behind such ridiculous biases it becomes a part of an US company… https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/googles-caste-bias-pr...

Cisco has also had problems with caste discrimination in the recent past.

Re: My Caste

#186

Post by darth_avocado »

hn_99 wrote: post #157
rhaway84773 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol and why don’t they qualify? Because of centuries of discrimination that has kept them poorer and less educated. You might be able to argue that there is no discrimination today and that the hiring process itself is not discriminatory, but the outcomes are entirely the result of discrimination in society.

This discussion made me curious, how is the cause of their poverty and lack of opportunity relevant? There are hundreds of millions of underprivileged people in India, why should those from a lower caste be given precedence over others, even if there is a history of oppression behind their poverty?

But that is exactly what exists. You could be born in a “lower caste” but a wealthy family, you’d have a preferential treatment over someone who is poor but is born in a “higher caste”.

Re: My Caste

#187

Post by yttribium »

alephnerd wrote: post #181
yttribium wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Identical phenomenon exists in US where groups with well above average incomes are considered officially "disadvantaged groups" for purposes of eg SBA loans.

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The United States absolutely does have multiple quota systems in different domains. https://selectgcr.com/blog/minority-owned-businesses-how-to-...

Re: My Caste

#189

Post by UncleMeat »

varunpant wrote: post #162
rhaway84773 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet 1 out of 180 CS professors are OBCs despite the population being over 40%. It’s probably closer to the welfare queen trope. Yeah, there are a few people who cheat the system, like any other system in the world. Thaw existence of cheaters does not negate the very real problems and challenges faced by the actual “victims”.

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1/180 is very very very different than 4/10. That's not just some statistical anomaly.

Re: My Caste

#190

Post by b215826 »

aildours wrote: post #172
b215826 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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> I can assure you that the vast majority of upper-caste people here don't use a caste-based surname anymore. Oh, I don't need assuring for this, this was the point I was making! Basically, some south Indian upper castes use their father's first name as their surname. And this in itself is a strong signifier that the person is from the upper caste! And yes, some surnames like Bulsara are linked to a place, some are n…

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