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Lie still in bed

ognjen.io

201–210 of 246 posts

Re: Lie still in bed

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Getting really tired of these posts telling me how to sleep. Haha -- if you meant it as a joke! And if you didn't... nobody is telling you how to sleep. It's just someone with an opinion. > Turns out if I go to bed later and sleep 6-7 hours, I feel much better, even if my "sleep scores" are much worse. Sleep cycles are generally between three-and-a-half and four-and-a-half hours long, I think, but maybe yours are s…

> nobody is telling you how to sleep You're right. I am a terrible sleeper, and these articles with advice on sleeping just grind my gears. When you spend so much time exhausted, wondering what you do wrong and trying to improve, "just lie down and close your eyes" sounds like a parody. It's like telling someone that you do math by reading the problem, thinking about it, and writing down the answer. Obviously it work…

I have been there, when I was younger. Indeed I think maybe age alone is to some extent a moderating influence. Usually I don't have an issue now -- I have learned to breathe and sort of "find" restfulness somehow I can't really explain.

I don't personally believe that the idea in the blog post -- exerting willpower to lie still in bed -- is actually a strategy, anyway.

But when I am super-anxious, which does happen, I instead take a completely different approach, which is that sleep is less important than being rested.

I decouple the two. That is, I focus not on going to bed, but resting in some comfortable place, because I think there are fewer sort of "back of the mind" objections to that. It's far less commitment.

When I was staying in my father's large, by-then-empty house 18 months back I could not settle at all to go to sleep.

After only one night I got a sense of why: the size of the place and the location of the bedroom was unsettling and felt insecure.

But there's a room near the front door, not very warm, but it had the comfiest chair in the house, for some reason. I sat in that chair with the heaviest blankets I could find, in the dark. In my clothes, still -- no "getting ready for bed" ritual to speak of. Just rest, knowing that I wasn't trying to sleep.

And then at three or four in the morning, after some snoozing, with the alarm set, I would go up to the bedroom with as few lights on as possible, and get more conventionally ready for bed before the nagging thoughts could raise any objections, and I would swiftly fall asleep knowing that the sun would come p in a couple of hours.

It was enough sleep to survive, and completely enough rest, for the two or three months I was there.

Turns out my Dad used to do exactly the same thing, in exactly the same chair.

So if you'll forgive some more advice, in your shoes this is what I would try: give up on sleep. Focus only on low-stakes, low-effort rest. Perhaps sleep will sort itself out in that context.

Re: Lie still in bed

#202
I have never had any sleep issues and people are always surprised to hear my tactic: I just really enjoy the bed. It’s clean, it’s soft, I’m tired. I enjoy lying in bed. Sometimes I just don’t want to fall asleep because it feels so nice. I always fall asleep very fast.

Useless information probably, but who knows. Also, it’s not really a tactic. But perhaps you can try it, look forward to lying in bed. Enjoy it, it’s me time, I can think about whatever I want, I have all the time in the world. So nice. I’m gonna go right now.

Re: Lie still in bed

#203
post #98

I’ve never actually slept. I lay still in bed, until I find myself waking up. Time has passed, but I have no idea what happened during the time in between laying down and waking up. I only feel the effects of having slept. Similarly there is a version of me that has only ever slept, and knows nothing of the awakened life. Yet still I wonder, if there is even a third version unknown to both of us?

Unbeknownst to you, what actually happens is that as soon as you fall asleep the universe is disassembled and then immediately re-assembled a few hours in the future.

Time travelling

Re: Lie still in bed

#204

Getting really tired of these posts telling me how to sleep. I tried going to bed earlier. Getting enough exercise, but not too late. No coffee after lunch. No eating after 20:00. I would have 8 hours of sleep or slightly longer and feel exhausted every day. Turns out if I go to bed later and sleep 6-7 hours, I feel much better, even if my "sleep scores" are much worse. If I'm not tired, I can lie with my eyes closed…

This isn't an article about how to sleep. It's an article about how one person approaches practice.

Re: Lie still in bed

#205
post #102
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the point of the article was actually about sleep at all. It was about where to apply willpower to effect any kind of habit change. It's just an example in his case that the habit he wanted to build was going to sleep earlier, which he tried to do by just lying still in bed at the time he wanted to sleep, and resisting the urge to do anything else, first for two minutes, then for four. But he applies th…

Of course, why didn't I think of it? To change my bad habits, all I need to do is will it! Truly insightful.

Willpower isn't all or nothing. I can't will myself to go to sleep an hour earlier, and if I set that as my standard, I'll fail.

But can I will myself to lie still in bed for two minutes? Much more likely. And, having succeeded and begun the building of a habit, can I lie still for 2.2 minutes the next night? Yes, I probably can.

I thought the point was to rethink how and where we apply willpower and set ourselves up to succeed more often by moving the "succeeding" bar within the realm of our current willpower, rather than holding some standard of "success" that our willpower can never meet.

Re: Lie still in bed

#206
post #137

I wrote [1] about my tip for falling sleep: Daydream. I now coach my own kids to do the same and it works. Essentially do not think about things that has happened; It just gets you annoyed with regrets that can not be changed. Do not think about the future; You will get excited, anxious, annoyed and too worked up to sleep. Also covers sports, politics, relationship, technology etc. Think about things that do not affe…

For years I fell asleep thinking about some math problem I was working on. Worked wonders, never had any issues falling asleep. Then I left academia, and were no longer thinking about math all day. An unforeseen consequence: I started having issues falling asleep. Now I need to regularly look up puzzles or maybe challenging programming problems, just to have something relaxing to fill my mind while falling asleep.

It bears a risk of developing a connection and feeling sleepy every time you need to do some math. :D

Re: Lie still in bed

#207

Just like you can practice going to sleep at a reasonable hour, so can you practice keeping your bed made, liking a particular food, or doing collage. This is so true and so powerful. People in general really underestimate how "hackable" their brains and habits are. It's probably the single biggest fixable difference I see between people who are successful and happy and those who aren't. I think the general HN demogr…

Some of the best advice I've ever received is, "Don't overestimate what you can do in a day, but don't underestimate what you can do in a year, never mind a decade," and I think it's relevant to your comment and this article.

We live in a "success now" culture. It's almost anathema to be willing to be bad at something long enough to become good at it. If you haven't demonstrated an aptitude for something, don't touch it.

But the compounding effect of even very slight changes over years can change everything.

You can't double your performance overnight. But if you get 1% better every week for 70 weeks, you can double your performance that way, and you're not even a year and a half in.

So can you start sleeping an hour earlier? Not overnight, no. But can you get 1% better at it per week for a few months by practicing and succeeding at small changes? Yeah, you probably can.

Re: Lie still in bed

#208

Getting really tired of these posts telling me how to sleep. I tried going to bed earlier. Getting enough exercise, but not too late. No coffee after lunch. No eating after 20:00. I would have 8 hours of sleep or slightly longer and feel exhausted every day. Turns out if I go to bed later and sleep 6-7 hours, I feel much better, even if my "sleep scores" are much worse. If I'm not tired, I can lie with my eyes closed…

Out if curiosity did you ever test for sleep apnea?

Re: Lie still in bed

#209
post #179

Just like you can practice going to sleep at a reasonable hour, so can you practice keeping your bed made, liking a particular food, or doing collage. This is so true and so powerful. People in general really underestimate how "hackable" their brains and habits are. It's probably the single biggest fixable difference I see between people who are successful and happy and those who aren't. I think the general HN demogr…

I find it extremely naive, and I highly doubt there's lack of unsuccessful people who hold similar views. Maximal versions of the belief are actually quite fashionable from time to time, "The Secret" book for an example. In reality, you can try liking a particular food containing Coriander, but your genetics can interfere, and try as you might, it will still taste like soap. You can lie in bad every night in total si…

   you will be much more successful in life if you 
   invest it breaking barriers you can overcome and 
   avoid fighting losing battles. 
Cheers to that. I don't see any conflict between what you wrote and what I wrote.

   genetics [etc.]
Please, be reasonable. I said that it was valuable and powerful to realize our brains are hackable, not that it was some limitless ridiculous sci-fi ability that could rewrite or circumvent your genetic code or other hard limits.

I understand that there are people who seem to believe such things, but if you re-read what I wrote (or maybe read it for the first time) I think you'll find I very clearly never hinted at such nonsense.

Re: Lie still in bed

#210
post #137

I wrote [1] about my tip for falling sleep: Daydream. I now coach my own kids to do the same and it works. Essentially do not think about things that has happened; It just gets you annoyed with regrets that can not be changed. Do not think about the future; You will get excited, anxious, annoyed and too worked up to sleep. Also covers sports, politics, relationship, technology etc. Think about things that do not affe…

  Do not think about the future;
A variant of this technique I'm using since age ten, is to project myself in aspirational situations, tipically what I want to be when I grow up. So I'll be a cosmonaut or a famous writer planning projects and interacting with people
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