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Lie still in bed

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Re: Lie still in bed

#191

Post by rustybolt »

Getting really tired of these posts telling me how to sleep.

I tried going to bed earlier. Getting enough exercise, but not too late. No coffee after lunch. No eating after 20:00. I would have 8 hours of sleep or slightly longer and feel exhausted every day.

Turns out if I go to bed later and sleep 6-7 hours, I feel much better, even if my "sleep scores" are much worse.

If I'm not tired, I can lie with my eyes closed for hours. It's better to get out and do something else for an hour, then try again. For me, at least.

Re: Lie still in bed

#192

Post by JohnBooty »

Terr_ wrote: post #184
skygazer wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have ADHD. My intended habits are very fragile, and if a single visual cue goes missing, I'll skip a step -- if my wife removes my antiperspirant from the counter, then I just unwittingly skip that step that day. I rely on rube Goldberg machinations. I have one trick that works, but I hate it. I build checklists with routine tasks, like morning and evening routines, or packing for a trip, etc, and automate sending…

> However, one situation where I do love it is "before I leave the house to go to X" checklists Not diagnosed with anything, but I put things in my shoes, such as the occasional paper envelope that needs sending. The computer chair is another "an item is physically obstructing me I must deal with it before I continue" destination. (Example: Some dirty laundry, indicating I need to start the washing-machine I loaded e…

I love it! This is a great habit.

ADHD or not, it's all about reducing cognitive load.

Re: Lie still in bed

#193

Post by bemusedthrow75 »

rustybolt wrote: post #191

Getting really tired of these posts telling me how to sleep. I tried going to bed earlier. Getting enough exercise, but not too late. No coffee after lunch. No eating after 20:00. I would have 8 hours of sleep or slightly longer and feel exhausted every day. Turns out if I go to bed later and sleep 6-7 hours, I feel much better, even if my "sleep scores" are much worse. If I'm not tired, I can lie with my eyes closed…

> Getting really tired of these posts telling me how to sleep.

Haha -- if you meant it as a joke! And if you didn't... nobody is telling you how to sleep. It's just someone with an opinion.

> Turns out if I go to bed later and sleep 6-7 hours, I feel much better, even if my "sleep scores" are much worse.

Sleep cycles are generally between three-and-a-half and four-and-a-half hours long, I think, but maybe yours are slightly on the shorter side.

Either way, if you're getting two cycles in and you wake up cleanly after the second one, that is a great place to be. If you're sleeping such that you're being woken by your alarm in the middle of a sleep cycle, that is hell after a while.

Before the industrial revolution really settled in, before the electric light, many people used to routinely have "first sleep" and "second sleep", splitting up two cycles, and they would have meaningful time to do stuff in between. There are references to it in stories and it's seemingly where the whole "midnight adventure" trope in children's stories comes from.

Sometimes I am like this, depending on my stress levels. That time in between sleeps can be lovely if you know you have time for it.

Re: Lie still in bed

#194

Post by Zircom »

djsavvy wrote: post #188
Pooge wrote: post #88

I used to be really bad at falling asleep. I'm not talking 30 minutes or 45 minutes, but sometimes 3 whole hours without being able to get 1 second of sleep. I didn't even touch my phone once while in bed. I also had a lot of trouble finding the right position in which to sleep to feel comfortable (not even talking about finding the right mattress/pillow combination). Somehow, I trained myself at sleeping on my back…

How did you train yourself to start sleeping on your back? I've been trying to stop side sleeping for a while due to some pains and postural concerns.

Pillow under my knees and a thin one to hold on my chest and fold my arms on top of helped me get used to sleeping on my back.

Re: Lie still in bed

#195

Post by bemusedthrow75 »

l72 wrote: post #142

I also struggle to sleep due to anxiety about what I could or should be doing. I started using a visualization meditation technique. I don’t watch a wide variety of tv, instead I tend to watch my favorites over and over again so I have a pretty good visual in my head. I have ripped the audio from my favorite shows and put them on random with a 30 minute sleep timer. I focus on visualizing the episode as I’m listening…

If I ever have to rely on listening to something to get me to sleep, it's Jesus' Blood Never Failed Me Yet by Gavin Bryars.

I am an atheist and attach no meaning to the religious aspect of the little loop of vocals, but it's an extraordinarily striking piece of music with an unusual pattern of repetition.

But I just broke the first rule of Bryars Club.

Re: Lie still in bed

#196

Post by bemusedthrow75 »

layer8 wrote: post #74
Tempest1981 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would 4-8-8 work?

I wondered too. The article claims that the 4-7-8 ratio is important.

I have often wondered about how the balance of the 7 and 8 was struck. But I don't really want to think about it too deeply because it might break it!

Re: Lie still in bed

#197

Post by DougMerritt »

Llamamoe wrote: post #166
dloss wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For people sleeping alone, this counting technique might be a nerdy alternative: http://www.dirk-loss.de/calmyourmind/ Moreover, I find Shinzen Young's reframing helpful: "Amazingly, it’s possible to get a good night’s rest without necessarily sleeping much or at all. Two things are required: (1) that the body get rest by lying very still and corpse-like. (2) that the consciousness get rest by engaging in a systemati…

There is no possibility of this anyhow working. Sleep is not "mind rest", it's a neurological process completely different from and incompatible with consciousness. You can relieve some fraction of cognitive fatigue by taking a mental break, but this compares to sleep in much the same way as duct taping a broken tool compares to mending it properly.

You're absolutely right. On the other hand, really extensive meditation can have some very strange effects on sleeping and some other things, so I personally withhold judgement.

If nothing else, take into account the studies that said that the placebo effect can actually help about 30% of people -- even if they know it's a placebo. So I don't know. Things get weird quickly.

Re: Lie still in bed

#198

Post by rustybolt »

bemusedthrow75 wrote: post #193
rustybolt wrote: post #191

Getting really tired of these posts telling me how to sleep. I tried going to bed earlier. Getting enough exercise, but not too late. No coffee after lunch. No eating after 20:00. I would have 8 hours of sleep or slightly longer and feel exhausted every day. Turns out if I go to bed later and sleep 6-7 hours, I feel much better, even if my "sleep scores" are much worse. If I'm not tired, I can lie with my eyes closed…

> Getting really tired of these posts telling me how to sleep. Haha -- if you meant it as a joke! And if you didn't... nobody is telling you how to sleep. It's just someone with an opinion. > Turns out if I go to bed later and sleep 6-7 hours, I feel much better, even if my "sleep scores" are much worse. Sleep cycles are generally between three-and-a-half and four-and-a-half hours long, I think, but maybe yours are s…

> nobody is telling you how to sleep

You're right. I am a terrible sleeper, and these articles with advice on sleeping just grind my gears.

When you spend so much time exhausted, wondering what you do wrong and trying to improve, "just lie down and close your eyes" sounds like a parody.

It's like telling someone that you do math by reading the problem, thinking about it, and writing down the answer. Obviously it works for some people, but this advice will not help anyone do math.

Re: Lie still in bed

#199

Post by jayknight »

flurdy wrote: post #137

I wrote [1] about my tip for falling sleep: Daydream. I now coach my own kids to do the same and it works. Essentially do not think about things that has happened; It just gets you annoyed with regrets that can not be changed. Do not think about the future; You will get excited, anxious, annoyed and too worked up to sleep. Also covers sports, politics, relationship, technology etc. Think about things that do not affe…

There are a few podcasts that just tell stories about nothing in a very calm and relaxing way.

https://www.nothingmuchhappens.com/stories is one I've used sometimes, but there are others that are similar.

Re: Lie still in bed

#200

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

tonyarkles wrote: post #177
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have ADHD and I choose not to make excuses.

I'm having a hard time not saying something really snarky here, but that's not particularly productive. Your comment isn't going to bring any good into the world, it just serves to shame someone who's struggling. We've got enough of that already.

I disagree. It was extremely productive and liberating for me to view my ADHD this way. I don't allow it to be an excuse.
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