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Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

rijksoverheid.nl

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Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#421

Post by someplaceguy »

schnebbau wrote: post #325
shellfishgene wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are for sure tradeoffs here, but in Germany for example they recently made paying in cash for real estate illegal because it was obvious that almost all those cash transactions involved crime money of some sort. Edit: As noted below cash here refers to paper money. The same law also prohibits real estate purchase with gold, silver, diamonds or crypto currencies.

So people were handing over suitcases containing millions in cold hard cash!? Is there ever a legitimate reason to do that?

Yes.

One of my banks forbids making bank transfers of over 10,000 EUR. The other is not far behind.

Even then, sometimes they simply decide that they're not going to allow you to make bank transfers to certain perfectly legitimate accounts. There is no way to override that.

For the past couple of days I've been trying to set up an automatic monthly transfer for paying my rent and my bank is not allowing me because it's "exceeding the allowable daily limit", even though I haven't done any transfers or significant payments lately, and my rent is way below the 10,000 EUR limit.

You also can't withdraw large sums of money easily.

Furthermore, even when they allow these large transfers (which presumably would require you to physically visit a branch which might be in a different country or even continent), it's not uncommon to charge a not insignificant percentage of that money as a fee. This is significantly more common for large transfers than for small ones.

Large inbound transfers can be even more of a hassle, as banks often require you to provide documents justifying why you're receiving that money, which not only might be difficult in some cases (even when you're not doing anything illegal), but also invades your privacy and can be a significant security risk in some situations.

All of this basically makes banks a prison for your money, which not even you can access easily.

And besides, all that is assuming that you are even able to open a bank account.

There are many reasons for why opening a bank account is hard or even impossible in many cases.

And believe me, this doesn't happen in just one or two banks, it's quite common procedure in practically every bank, and increasingly so.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#422

Post by paxys »

The USD $100 note was introduced in 1914, and at that time was equivalent to several months' wages for an average citizen.

If currency note denominations were to keep up with inflation, today the Fed would be printing $3000 bills. Yet $100 is still all that we have, effectively making cash transactions less and less feasible every year.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#423

Post by ticviking »

macinjosh wrote: post #384
elric wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is targeted at law abiding smallholding farmers where roadside transactions are often done in cash Where (in NL) do you find farmers who routinely need to accept >3k in cash and are (somehow?) unable to accept electronic payments? Pretty much everyone everywhere can accept at least one form of electronic payments. That's a legal requirement for any business in Belgium, and I can't imagine the Dutch being that…

Why does the NL want to kick down at the farmers so badly? Don't they know where real food comes from?

People who can independently produce food have a form of real power that is very hard to resist.

The measures used to keep various peasant and serf classes under control were so extreme in history because if they became able to exercise that power the social order was overturned.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#424

Post by cooper_ganglia »

gspencley wrote: post #169
mdrzn wrote: post #53

The maximum limit for cash payments in Italy is 1000€, so 3k would still be a lot. Why would someone need to pay for 10k in cash? Where does that cash come from? 60% of the times, it's money laundering every time. edit: I suppose since I'm in EU and I'm only 30 I'm "used" to the 1k limit, while non-EU (or specifically USA) people might be grabbing their pitchforks.

> Why would someone need to pay for 10k in cash? The answer to this is very simple: none of your business. I take strong issue with the word "need." Why do you need that car? That television? That four bedroom house? Why do you need that bow and arrow? For sport, you say? Why not play some ball game instead? Why do you need a chess set when you can play digitally online without killing a tree? Why do you need those f…

It’s absolutely wild to see people making comments like the one you replied to. Are people so eager to have Daddy Government monitoring their every move, deciding how they’re allowed to spend their money? Europeans seem to have Stockholm Syndrome, a fetish for authoritarianism of their preferred flavor.

It feels like the entire continent is one big HOA, deciding what color you can paint your house, or what flowers you can plant outside, to “preserve congruency in the neighborhood”.

It’s honestly a bit concerning seeing how pacified and apathetic people become about government overreach when it doesn’t affect them directly (yet).

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#426

Post by ffhhttt »

gunapologist99 wrote: post #409
mdrzn wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can deposit whatever amount you want into your bank account, they just might ask questions regarding where the money came from, and if you show that you sold products there's zero issues.

> show that you sold products there's zero issues well, there might be one small issue! how can you 'show you sold products'? after all, you sold them!! isn't the cash sufficient to show you sold products? hasn't it been sufficient for thousands of years?

Every single country in the EU has VAT. If you’re yearly revenue is to low (not that likely for commercial farmers) you still have to give out receipts for every sale.

Also have you heard about bookeping? It’s also a thing that has existed for thousands of years.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#427

Post by TechBro8615 »

ffhhttt wrote: post #397
motohagiography wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- paying a team of day labour workers - hay / feed delivery - combine/equipment rental - equipment resale - livestock - farm vehicle sales / repair It's probably fine, and I hear you can eat bugs.

I’m pretty sure the 3000 limit is not at all a huge issue in any of those cases pretty much anywhere in Europe and bank transfers are also cheap and instant. Not that I agree with this ban. I really don’t but focusing on farmers specifically is very strange when farming is so heavily commercialized, especially in the Netherlands.

Bank transfers are cheap and instant when both parties in the transaction have a working bank account, which means they had a residence where they could receive mail, which means they had government identification, etc.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#428

Post by ldhough »

toast0 wrote: post #335
rightbyte wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You ruin notes if you put them in your pocket. Coins you can just drop in the coin pocket on jeans. I wish the 1USD coin was more than a legal tender collector item. Maybe up to 2USD would be nice.

Maybe some notes, but $1 bills are pretty durable. And most places will take them in nearly any condition, although, I did have a merchant in Ocean City, NJ recently that wouldn't take a $1 with a small tear, and I hear merchants overseas do want pristine USD.

I was recently in El Salvador, which uses the USD as an official currency (alongside BTC lol). Despite using dollars, the $1 coins are used instead of notes almost exclusively for that denomination (mostly presidential dollars and some silver Susan B Anthony dollars). I was curious and did a bit of research, apparently the reason is that because day-to-day transactions are done almost entirely in small amounts of cash the paper notes have a very short lifespan (apparently <1yr) there, while coins will last decades.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#429

Post by gunapologist99 »

input_sh wrote: post #408
BSEdlMMldESB wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[]

> if they find more than 3000 eur in one place that is not pre authorized, they will confiscate it all and punish the people who had that kind of cash; it's becoming 'the law' Can you please not make shit up to be obsessed about?

No need to curse to make your point, especially since this is a burgeoning area of both criminal and civil law in western countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset_forfeiture#European_Unio...

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#430

Post by toast0 »

dijit wrote: post #368
toast0 wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe some notes, but $1 bills are pretty durable. And most places will take them in nearly any condition, although, I did have a merchant in Ocean City, NJ recently that wouldn't take a $1 with a small tear, and I hear merchants overseas do want pristine USD.

More andecdotes but I've had british pound coins that were minted in the early 60's still in passable condition; nearly every dollar bill I've had in the US has been grimy and darkened and felt like it was three seconds from falling apart. (ok, hyperbole, but I've had a few like that) The US note was printed after 2001, that's a considerable time difference. Though your $20 notes are usually in excellent condition fo…

> nearly every dollar bill I've had in the US has been grimy and darkened and felt like it was three seconds from falling apart.

Yeah, that's how they are, but feeling like they're going to fall apart and actually falling appart are two different things.

> Though your $20 notes are usually in excellent condition for some reason compared to the british equivalent.

$20 bills tend to get picked up at the bank, spent at a merchant, and deposited at a bank. Banks will send worn notes to be retired. Many businesses don't take bills larger than $20, so don't use $20s to make change. It's uncommon to pay vendors and employees in cash, so merchants end up with a surplus of $20s that need to be deposited.

$1 bills are used in change, so they tend to get exchanged frequently. Few consumers will deal with $1s at a bank, and many businesses won't ever deposit them, but may need to make withdrawls in $1s so they can make change. They tend to pass through many hands before they get back to a bank where their condition can be checked.

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