Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

rijksoverheid.nl

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

381–390 of 802 posts

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#381

Post by consp »

thereddaikon wrote: post #202
throwaway2037 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am confused by your post. What are some good reasons to allow cash payments above 3000 EUR?

I'm not a european but I do have an example. A few years back I purchased a project car in cash. I don't carry checks, who does anymore? And my bank would have given me grief trying to transfer an amount that large at once. I had tried before and it would trigger their fraud detection and give me headaches. Its good its there but can be a barrier when I'm just trying to buy something. So going to branch and withdrawi…

In NL, all transactions above 10k are monitored and tracked, if you want to collect larger than x-k from your bank in cash it is monitored and tracked (depends on the bank, usually less than 3k). Depositing large cash transactions is monitored as well. If you are staying within the law there is no real way to get around it since hardly any legal employer will pay you in cash.

If the banks actually track it or not is another question. Every now and then a report comes out mentioning a banks failure to do so.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#382

Post by sowbug »

sigzero wrote: post #236
thereddaikon wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a european but I do have an example. A few years back I purchased a project car in cash. I don't carry checks, who does anymore? And my bank would have given me grief trying to transfer an amount that large at once. I had tried before and it would trigger their fraud detection and give me headaches. Its good its there but can be a barrier when I'm just trying to buy something. So going to branch and withdrawi…

Easy workaround is that you do more than one cash payment.

In the US banking system, that's called structuring. Which means that transactions of $10,000 or more are legally suspicious, and transactions under $10,000 are legally suspicious.

Logicians, please simplify the previous statement.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#383

Post by Loughla »

nolok wrote: post #330
boeingUH60 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom from government surveillance and potential overreach? In reality, there’s hardly any 3,000 euros+ transaction where a business or individual will accept cash. That’s too much money to have on hand when a bank transfer is much more comfortable…still happens rarely though so I think this law is overreaching. Disclosure: I’m not Dutch nor European so my opinion hardly matters here.

> Freedom from government surveillance and potential overreach? With all due respect, the transactions above that rough amount is exactly those I would want the government to keep an eye on, while letting me buy stuff for a few hundreds freely and without having to report it. There is pretty much no situation whatsoever when someone buys something for more than 3k€ where the absolute requirement to use cash is not li…

Like I said to the other poster. I transact often over that amount to purchase old woodworking equipment. The people I work with often do not want to transact electronically for multiple reasons. The tax is paid, it's on the books, but they want cash.

Why should that be limited?

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#384

Post by macinjosh »

elric wrote: post #346
motohagiography wrote: post #127

They can't control the black market in drugs, what makes them think controlling a black market in cash , which is a million times more desirable, will be any more successful? There's the small matter of millions of undocumented migrants entering Europe who will be trapped in this now-illegal-cash underclass, and these financial oppression laws just incentivise and create criminal networks to facilitate basic economy.…

> This is targeted at law abiding smallholding farmers where roadside transactions are often done in cash Where (in NL) do you find farmers who routinely need to accept >3k in cash and are (somehow?) unable to accept electronic payments? Pretty much everyone everywhere can accept at least one form of electronic payments. That's a legal requirement for any business in Belgium, and I can't imagine the Dutch being that…

Why does the NL want to kick down at the farmers so badly? Don't they know where real food comes from?

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#385

Post by shellfishgene »

schnebbau wrote: post #325
shellfishgene wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are for sure tradeoffs here, but in Germany for example they recently made paying in cash for real estate illegal because it was obvious that almost all those cash transactions involved crime money of some sort. Edit: As noted below cash here refers to paper money. The same law also prohibits real estate purchase with gold, silver, diamonds or crypto currencies.

So people were handing over suitcases containing millions in cold hard cash!? Is there ever a legitimate reason to do that?

The law was enacted last year to more effectively enforce sanctions against Russian oligarchs...

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#387

Post by lou1306 »

motohagiography wrote: post #127

They can't control the black market in drugs, what makes them think controlling a black market in cash , which is a million times more desirable, will be any more successful? There's the small matter of millions of undocumented migrants entering Europe who will be trapped in this now-illegal-cash underclass, and these financial oppression laws just incentivise and create criminal networks to facilitate basic economy.…

> This is targeted at law abiding smallholding farmers where roadside transactions are often done in cash.

Most EU nations are setting up instant payment systems for these and other "informal" use cases. In Sweden you can buy strawberries at a sidewalk stall and pay through Swish [0]. I should also stress that, no matter how bad Swedish inflation is at the moment, it's very unlikely that you will ever spend >3k EUR (about 35k SEK) on strawberries :)

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swish_(payment)

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#388

Post by 40four »

It says there is a bill in the works. Nothing definite yet. If it does pass, that seems very odd to me, especially coming from the US. I noticed the policy on €10K or more is already similar to what we have here for dollars. Anything $10K in cash or more gets flagged, and you have to fill out a form.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#389

Post by dealuromanet »

gambiting wrote: post #285
dealuromanet wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gleeful at no more easy transport in or out, eh? Will the regime, I mean The Party, oops I mean The Cabinet, also be removing the noise cameras installed along the roads when they remove the roads? Or are those going to be kept there to protect the people from ideological deviants?

>>also be removing the noise cameras installed along the roads when they remove the roads? Why would they be paying for upkeep of cameras that do absolutely nothing?

What do you mean they do nothing? They have a redundant microphone array that can track sound with high precision and a camera that can be used to automatically issue fines. Just point the hardware at the people walking about or congregating and see who is saying things The Cabinet doesn't like to hear. Or maybe even who isn't saying enough of what the Cabinet wants to hear. Why get rid of a perfectly functioning and deployed surveillance apparatus?

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#390

Post by isaacremuant »

My inmediate reaction is: "This is how we start. Watch it go down with time." and someone will say "there's already X amount".

But 3000 is pretty trivial and inflation makes it worse as well.

The end result seems to be the absolute desire of corporations and governments to have us control no actual money so they track everything while being absolutely non transparent themselves and can switch it off at their whim or, simply due to "system error", good luck going through the buteocratic process to get it back.

When it stops being about convenience and becomes forced, it's always a danger.

Post reply on HN