Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands • Hacker News Board

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#261

Post by slashdev » Wed, Aug 23, 2023, 2:36 PM UTC

ComputerGuru wrote: post #139

adventured wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't declare it, it's guaranteed to be confiscated until you prove a legitimate purpose for the > $10,000. Federal authorities generally have a higher standard of behavior than local or state police, although obviously not in every instance. If you try to cross the border with $500,000 declared, they may have some questions for you.

I was under the impression if you don’t declare it then there is no legal burden on the government to return it to you, whether you have a reasonable explanation or not. Whereas if you declare it and have a reasonable story/sufficient paperwork they can’t/shouldn’t take it. The point being that in cases where there is no funny business (at least in your opinion), you are strictly better off declaring it than taking y…

I feel a lot more comfortable wiring the money or using checks or so on than traveling across a border with that kind of cash.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#262

Post by awelxtr » Wed, Aug 23, 2023, 2:36 PM UTC

tough wrote: post #191

awelxtr wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the most disappointing rule ever. It makes my dream of returning money in thousands of 1 cent coins out of spite impossible

Only if they know the rule tho

Iirc only banks can't refuse.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#263

Post by raincom » Wed, Aug 23, 2023, 2:36 PM UTC

ajmurmann wrote: post #209

motohagiography wrote: post #127

They can't control the black market in drugs, what makes them think controlling a black market in cash , which is a million times more desirable, will be any more successful? There's the small matter of millions of undocumented migrants entering Europe who will be trapped in this now-illegal-cash underclass, and these financial oppression laws just incentivise and create criminal networks to facilitate basic economy.…

It might not stop transactions for drugs, but it might make laundering the money harder and more necessary

It makes money laundering harder for low and intermediate level drug dealers. Netherlands is a major importer for drugs: Amsterdam, Rotterdam, and Hamburg are major ports for drugs. Drug wholesalers in EU would rather transport millions of euros abroad, and use these euros in Africa in order to buy gold and other metals from locals. All of sudden, one ends with gold, sell gold back to refiners and get paid with bank transfers. It is a trade based money laundering. What the West want is to abolish cash everywhere across the world, it is an impossible goal. Even if Zimbabwe wants to abolish cash and use digital transactions, ordinary Zimbabweans don't want to participate in that.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#264

Post by Scarblac » Wed, Aug 23, 2023, 2:36 PM UTC

lettergram wrote: post #151

bluescrn wrote: post #5

Give it a decade or two of inflation, and that's cash effectively outlawed

Then they can monitor all transactions and turn off purchases based on what they want the population to buy. Too much meat for a week, sorry can’t buy more until next week. “But I worked for this money” too bad. It’s effectively “the company store”, except government (“by the people and for the people” - ie your neighbors) dictating what you buy. They just happen to also invest in the companies they direct you to.

They can already do that by rationing meat, like they did in WW2. Require that you have the correct stamps for buying what you want. Or probably introduce some horrible mobile app for it. No need to outlaw cash for that.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#265

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 23, 2023, 2:36 PM UTC

leesalminen wrote: post #149

raverbashing wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. That's max 100EUR in coins And I'm glad coins are more popular in Europe than in the US because those $1 notes take too much space

Wow, as someone from the US I always thought the $1 notes were far superior to the equivalent coins in other countries. I dislike having coins in my pocket, but already have a note or 2. Adding a couple more adds negligent space.

[deleted]

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#266

Post by hiatus » Wed, Aug 23, 2023, 2:36 PM UTC

shellfishgene wrote: post #249

motohagiography wrote: post #127

They can't control the black market in drugs, what makes them think controlling a black market in cash , which is a million times more desirable, will be any more successful? There's the small matter of millions of undocumented migrants entering Europe who will be trapped in this now-illegal-cash underclass, and these financial oppression laws just incentivise and create criminal networks to facilitate basic economy.…

There are for sure tradeoffs here, but in Germany for example they recently made paying in cash for real estate illegal because it was obvious that almost all those cash transactions involved crime money of some sort. Edit: As noted below cash here refers to paper money. The same law also prohibits real estate purchase with gold, silver, diamonds or crypto currencies.

So if you sell a house and want to buy a new one, you have to pay for a mortgage you don't need?

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#267

Post by em500 » Wed, Aug 23, 2023, 2:36 PM UTC

justrealist wrote: post #114

twisteriffic wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a solar flare powerful enough to destroy the entire electronic payment system were to occur I'm sure everyone will be fine with you buying your storable food and colloidal silver with cash.

The point is that there won't be enough cash in circulation to run the economy for even a day.

That ship has sailed in NL, where only 20% of store payments are in cash (despite quasi-regular outages of the electronic payment networks).

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#268

Post by dangus » Wed, Aug 23, 2023, 2:36 PM UTC

SileNce5k wrote: post #88

potatototoo99 wrote: post #10

There are many similar restrictions on other countries. Here is a list for Europe: https://www.europe-consommateurs.eu/en/shopping-internet/cas... The equivalent of 3,000 - 4,000 Euro seems to be the norm.

Nice to see that there's no limit where I live which is Norway. Hopefully, there are no plans to introduce one.

The libertarian-minded tend to think that this kind of freedom is necessary to prevent government overreach and oppression, but in reality the bulk of the people making large cash transactions are either avoiding taxes (ripping off you, the taxpayer) or participating in organized crime (human trafficking, weapons/drugs/counterfeit black markets, etc).

I would also argue that the only people making cash transactions that large are probably way wealthier than the average person and, again, are looking to launder their money.

Think about it seriously: in what scenario would you choose to use physical cash to make a transaction amounting in the thousands of dollars?

That's so insanely risky. You'd be a walking target. You could lose the money, someone could steal the money, it could be physically damaged.

It even puts you at risk during the transaction: why would the other party sell you the good when the money is right there ready to be robbed from you? There is no recourse because it's all under the table. I can't stop a check or have a paper trail to take to court if you just take my cash.

There is no situation I would be comfortable making a transaction with that much cash (unless I was in so insanely wealthy that this amount of money meant nothing to me).

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#269

Post by throwawaysleep » Wed, Aug 23, 2023, 2:36 PM UTC

macNchz wrote: post #198

Frustrating to see more laws like this that can readily throw a wrench in the day to day lives of regular working people, when money laundering and tax evasion at a scale multiple orders of magnitude larger than this is so shamelessly visible in the form of nine-figure real estate transactions, art auctions, and Caymans-based shell corporations.

Regular working people are spending 3K in cash?

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#270

Post by agilob » Wed, Aug 23, 2023, 2:37 PM UTC

Apofis wrote: post #133

dealuromanet wrote: post #99

[flagged]

My friend, no one really carries cash anymore.

Ever been to the Balkans? Visited Greece once? Literally every day every single ATM has 30 minute queues. People remember the day when government froze all their money, but notified their millionaire friends a day before so they could move money abroad.