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Windows 11 has made the “clean Windows install” an oxymoron

arstechnica.com

121–130 of 169 posts

Re: Windows 11 has made the “clean Windows install” an oxymoron

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can extract your data from the Windows partition and then delete it entirely from the Linux side.

Right, but I bought it for gaming on Windows. Since then the games I want have been released on MacOS, so the use case no longer exists. Now I have an expensive gaming laptop in a box somewhere.

In that case, I'd sell it before it depreciates further. Win-win because then it becomes useful to someone else.

Re: Windows 11 has made the “clean Windows install” an oxymoron

#122
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The modern start menu (at least what I see) reminds me of the gnome and KDE equivalents. It's a simple little list of apps, a space to pin those I use a lot, and a snappy search box. Bing is there, but it's gotten less intrusive in 11. The search box is better about surfacing what I'm actually looking for and not showing web searches 99% of the time. So I can't imagine I'm seeing the same thing as what's got so many…

> So I can't imagine I'm seeing the same thing as what's got so many people up in arms about the start menu. Did I get a weird OEM configuration? To answer that question, check out the screenshot in the article. If you have a similar spittoon-load of crapware installed, you have the same experience as ~everyone else and for some reason you aren't registering it. If you don't, something ethical happened.

I guess it comes down to what you perceive as crapware. I accepted a long time ago that I'm not the target audience for anything aimed at the mainstream. There were some icons I unpinned for apps and tool installers I didn't need. None of them were actually installed. They just went to the MS store. No biggie. I'd expect a lot of people to appreciate links to install/access very mainstream things like Office or Instagram.

They're trivial to remove and don't affect performance. When I think crapware, I think bloaty nonsense that no one needs or wants like Bonzi Buddy or 900 different browser toolbars. I don't see unpinning a few things on a fresh install as some great burden.

Re: Windows 11 has made the “clean Windows install” an oxymoron

#123
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how do you deal with absence of working task manager? any random hang-up is a forced restart, no way to kill offending process as EVERYTHING just freezes up. Tried forcing myself to migrate to Linux, even after forcing no updates, a lot of things magically stop working or break, forcing me to spend hours on google to fix some crap by copypasting random nonsense into terminal. I just want to use my PC, not be a debugg…

If things are so frozen that you can't open System Monitor (task manager), try this: Hold down SysRq and Alt, let go of SysRq, keep holding down Alt, then press these buttons in order (don't need to hold them): REISUB - to remember it: "Raising Elephants Is So Utterly Boring", also known as "raising the elephant". On some systems you need to enable this feature first, so try it out once to see if it works and look up…

Well this is the perfect example of the infuriatingly arcane crap that I have to deal with on Linux. Every time I need to do something on Linux, I have to look it up and then when I do - it is some crazy long explanation of hoops I need to jump through to make it happen. I try to keep track of these notes, but it all takes so much time.

I am hoping someone comes up with a fully dis-arcaned distro. Especially ditch (or remap) goofy command line relics into the obvious and easily remembered. Why do we still use CP instead of Copy? Legacy stuff that greybeards would freak if it were changed. Let them use a greybeard distro and make one that is for joe user.

Yes, I use Mint and it is still full of arcane crap.

Re: Windows 11 has made the “clean Windows install” an oxymoron

#124

Ugh. I’m OS homeless. Windows is full of garbage. MacOS jumped the shark on UI and is irritating in so many ways as it tries to be some Frankenstein’s monster of a desktop and mobile-inspired UI. And Linux is incapable of watching videos in a browser without destroying my CPU (Nvidia lacks hardware video decoding on Linux) and continues with all the classic “engineers don’t do UX” problems. Not one option feels “good…

>Not one option feels “good” to me. There’s just levels of tolerable.

isn't that just life in general? You compromise with family, with where you work, with how much you pay for stuff at the store, even with your own mind. Nothing is ever ideal.

Re: Windows 11 has made the “clean Windows install” an oxymoron

#125
post #5

Phew. After being a Windows user for literally almost two decades I've happily migrated to Linux and couldn't be happier. Yep, it took some time to prepare but let's be frank, developers already use quite a lot of Linux/Unix tools already so why not cut the middleman and just work directly with what we need most?

Exactly. I made the switch from MacOS and couldn't be happier. The fun thing is that with Linux these days you have the option of a powerful workstation that you can upgrade be it laptop or desktop, can do gaming, and is private. The next thing for me is to "decloud" - meaning remove any and all online services that are not mission critical.

Well said.

> The next thing for me is to "decloud" - meaning remove any and all online services that are not mission critical.

For me there are multiple parallel "side quests" and decloud is definitely one of them (I strive to minimize cloud and select solutions that can be self hosted and that are E2EE. Then I pay for hosting anyway but I always have an option of rolling my own. Example: etesync for calendars and contacts).

Other side quests: instead of Gnome use Sway, this requires manually picking wifi/Bluetooth connection managers (iwctl and bluetoothctl work well) and other tooling.

Yet another: convert my entire family to use Linux. Sadly this is harder since schools teach Windows but Gnome looks very similar to what they use.

These are just some examples. The good thing is that all of these are small steps that can be taken in any order to improve the situation in small increments.

Re: Windows 11 has made the “clean Windows install” an oxymoron

#126
post #5

Phew. After being a Windows user for literally almost two decades I've happily migrated to Linux and couldn't be happier. Yep, it took some time to prepare but let's be frank, developers already use quite a lot of Linux/Unix tools already so why not cut the middleman and just work directly with what we need most?

how do you deal with absence of working task manager? any random hang-up is a forced restart, no way to kill offending process as EVERYTHING just freezes up. Tried forcing myself to migrate to Linux, even after forcing no updates, a lot of things magically stop working or break, forcing me to spend hours on google to fix some crap by copypasting random nonsense into terminal. I just want to use my PC, not be a debugg…

> spend hours on google to fix some crap

That's the Windows way. It's a bad fit for Linux, because there is no one true obsessively-backwards-compatible Linux.

The good news is we don't need it: Linux isn't a black box, so we don't need to guess or study its behavior. We can look it up instead. The goal here is to construct understanding from documentation, as opposed to deconstructing behavior from testing.

Some great starting points to get your bearings are:

- https://wiki.archlinux.org/

- https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Main_Page

- man pages

Re: Windows 11 has made the “clean Windows install” an oxymoron

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The taskbar “Search” box had a new “fun” little icon representing whatever search item they wanted to advertise to me today. Had to find windows “tips” site to work out how to turn it off… It boggles my mind how people don't find it absolutely infuriating. I watch quite a lot of streams and people always have 3 things enabled that I personally would disable instantly: - huge searchbox taking a good 1/3 of the taskb…

> "I assume that vast majority of Windows users just don't care." Most of them it's not so much that they don't care as it is that they've been literally brainwashed their entire lives to believe that Windows holds the top market position because it's somehow "superior" to other operating systems. They really truly believe the decades old Ballmer FUD about other operating systems. It's impossible in their minds that…

It's really not that complex for me: I work in games, lots of game development tools only work in Windows and/or have horrible, undersupported Linux ports at best. I have no allegiance to Microsoft, I can still rotate around to Linux. but it's no surprise I end up mostly in Windows.

now with all that said, on topic: I haven't seen this search fun icon nor really any ads on W11. Don't know if that's because I opted out of any personalized targeting or whatnot, but I wasn't nagged much once I got everything installed and customized my toolar.

Re: Windows 11 has made the “clean Windows install” an oxymoron

#128

>A prompt to pair your phone with your PC. >A Microsoft 365 trial offer. >A 100GB OneDrive offer. >A $1 introductory PC Game Pass offer. Whats so bad about those?

In Futurama, there is a gag where Fry finds out about ads being injected in his dreams through brain waves or something. When he is upset by this, his peers do not understand him. So he explains: "Of course we had ads in the 20th century... but only on billboards, and buses, and milk cartons, and [list goes on for a while]. But not in dreams! Nuh-uh!" I think what's happening here is two things: First, a personal com…

>a personal computing device is fundamentally an extension of your own self into the digital world, functioning similar to how you use your limbs to interact with the physical world

well maybe that's the issue. I see it more like operating a car than me acting as some avatar renovating my house. Ideally there'd be a smooth flat empty road, but there will be bumps, annoying people, billboards, and sketch sand roads. It's all a part of the journey, and in many cases I'm riding through a pre-defined world.

At least I can remove more of these in the ditital world.

Re: Windows 11 has made the “clean Windows install” an oxymoron

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nvidia lacks hardware video decoding on Linux That's… not true. Fact, they don't support VA-API, but there is support for some other methods like NVDEC. Programs like mpv can use it directly while for something like Firefox you can use a wrapper like nvidia-vaapi-driver[1]. It's not ideal, but that's what you get from buying their stuff. [1] https://github.com/elFarto/nvidia-vaapi-driver

So 1. I'm using the wrong hardware. It's my fault. 2. I'm using the wrong browser. 3. I should be working out the dependency story and compiling some driver from Github myself. It's 2023. For me that means my OS cannot hardware decode video. It's just not a real option for maybe 99% of PC users.

I don't know what you expect Linux to do about this, it's an entirely an Nvidia issue.

Re: Windows 11 has made the “clean Windows install” an oxymoron

#130
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If things are so frozen that you can't open System Monitor (task manager), try this: Hold down SysRq and Alt, let go of SysRq, keep holding down Alt, then press these buttons in order (don't need to hold them): REISUB - to remember it: "Raising Elephants Is So Utterly Boring", also known as "raising the elephant". On some systems you need to enable this feature first, so try it out once to see if it works and look up…

Well this is the perfect example of the infuriatingly arcane crap that I have to deal with on Linux. Every time I need to do something on Linux, I have to look it up and then when I do - it is some crazy long explanation of hoops I need to jump through to make it happen. I try to keep track of these notes, but it all takes so much time. I am hoping someone comes up with a fully dis-arcaned distro. Especially ditch (o…

yes, i much prefer the mac experience where it crashes and says sorry in 13 different languages.
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