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Windows 11 has made the “clean Windows install” an oxymoron

arstechnica.com

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Re: Windows 11 has made the “clean Windows install” an oxymoron

#31

Post by artemonster »

Corsome wrote: post #5

Phew. After being a Windows user for literally almost two decades I've happily migrated to Linux and couldn't be happier. Yep, it took some time to prepare but let's be frank, developers already use quite a lot of Linux/Unix tools already so why not cut the middleman and just work directly with what we need most?

how do you deal with absence of working task manager? any random hang-up is a forced restart, no way to kill offending process as EVERYTHING just freezes up. Tried forcing myself to migrate to Linux, even after forcing no updates, a lot of things magically stop working or break, forcing me to spend hours on google to fix some crap by copypasting random nonsense into terminal. I just want to use my PC, not be a debugger non stop.

Re: Windows 11 has made the “clean Windows install” an oxymoron

#32

Post by twsted »

LegitShady wrote: post #14

It's because everyone got super happy to give their money to apple who has a similar experience in ipad etc. Want to setup apple wallet? Oh you're not backed up here's an iCloud offer in your settings menu. Etc etc. It's gross but it's sort of the norm now. Why shouldn't Microsoft do it if that's ok when apple does it?

From the article:

'Apple doesn't mandate Apple ID sign-in. Apple does put "helpful" "reminders" about setting up Apple Pay, iCloud backups, and a few other things into its setup screens, but it doesn't take your full screen over again to try to get you to opt in to things you've already said no to. There is a notification in the Settings app asking you to sign in and set a few things up if you haven't, but they're dismissable, and they stay dismissed. Safari doesn't pester you to switch back to it once you've switched away, like a 4-year-old who asks you what time it is every time the clock changes (I don't know if this is a widely relatable example, but it's my lived reality at present). There are no third-party applications installed beyond the under-the-hood open source bits and pieces that are baked into macOS's foundations.'

And:

'My frustration is not so much with what Microsoft is doing but how it is doing it. So many of Microsoft's reminders and notifications feel like they happen at the expense of respecting the user's choices.'

Re: Windows 11 has made the “clean Windows install” an oxymoron

#33

Post by Kye »

fidotron wrote: post #6

The modern iteration of the Start menu is a particular travesty and has been rendered all but unusable in order to push you to Bing by accident. Microsoft simply must believe that Windows can survive the users hating this crap, and I fear they are right. For myself 11 was bad enough to finally try out Steam on Debian and was pleasantly surprised. KDE is closer to being the Windows desktop I want than Windows 11 is, w…

The modern start menu (at least what I see) reminds me of the gnome and KDE equivalents. It's a simple little list of apps, a space to pin those I use a lot, and a snappy search box. Bing is there, but it's gotten less intrusive in 11. The search box is better about surfacing what I'm actually looking for and not showing web searches 99% of the time.

So I can't imagine I'm seeing the same thing as what's got so many people up in arms about the start menu. Did I get a weird OEM configuration? It's a newish Lenovo Legion laptop. I haven't changed any start menu settings.

Re: Windows 11 has made the “clean Windows install” an oxymoron

#34

Post by wildrhythms »

codeulike wrote: post #8

I keep seeing headlines about Microsoft adding adverts to Windows and whatnot but none of it ever appears infront of me. Is that because I'm on Windows Pro?

Hit the Super key

Type a letter 'a'

Backspace

Your AI Powered Copilot. Say goodbye to endless search results! Try the New Bing. NCAA Footaball Set To Return. Ask Bing about NCAA Football. Top Football Tailgating Spots. Ranking The Best College Rivalries. Today's News Weather And More. Trending News From The Web. Djokovic wins W&S Open. Confronted by Contestant. Meme dog Cheems dies. Yankees lose 8 in a row. Dentist Guilty of Killing Wife. Criticized for Kissing Player. Spain's Hero Loses Father. Tori Spelling hospitalized. Games For You. Amazing Spider Solitaire. Bricks Breaker Deluxe Crusher. Farm Merge Valley. Bubble Shooter HD.

...

(If this gets flagged for spam I don't blame it)

Re: Windows 11 has made the “clean Windows install” an oxymoron

#35

Post by lotsofpulp »

fidotron wrote: post #21
short_sells_poo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny (in a bad way) that all this telemetry and optimization somehow optimizes for basically antisocial behavior. If I translate what you write into plain language: "every time we upset people by deliberately altering the interface, they are forced to rediscover things and they might start using some new bullshit we want to push". Imagine if your local supermarket regularly reshuffled all the wares because this…

Your local supermarket almost certainly does do that for that reason.

I have lived in many US states, and I have never experienced this in 30+ years.

The end caps might change periodically, but the location of 99% of items is the same every time I have gone.

Costco would probably be guilty of moving things around the most, but I assume this is partly due to their logistics and partly due to them wanting people to browse.

Re: Windows 11 has made the “clean Windows install” an oxymoron

#37

Post by chrisandchris »

fidotron wrote: post #21
short_sells_poo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny (in a bad way) that all this telemetry and optimization somehow optimizes for basically antisocial behavior. If I translate what you write into plain language: "every time we upset people by deliberately altering the interface, they are forced to rediscover things and they might start using some new bullshit we want to push". Imagine if your local supermarket regularly reshuffled all the wares because this…

Your local supermarket almost certainly does do that for that reason.

Maybe in the US? The supermarkets I go to have the same layout over years.

Re: Windows 11 has made the “clean Windows install” an oxymoron

#38

Post by majewsky »

artemonster wrote: post #31
Corsome wrote: post #5

Phew. After being a Windows user for literally almost two decades I've happily migrated to Linux and couldn't be happier. Yep, it took some time to prepare but let's be frank, developers already use quite a lot of Linux/Unix tools already so why not cut the middleman and just work directly with what we need most?

how do you deal with absence of working task manager? any random hang-up is a forced restart, no way to kill offending process as EVERYTHING just freezes up. Tried forcing myself to migrate to Linux, even after forcing no updates, a lot of things magically stop working or break, forcing me to spend hours on google to fix some crap by copypasting random nonsense into terminal. I just want to use my PC, not be a debugg…

Both KDE and Gnome have task manager apps as far as I'm aware. And even then, in my experience it's very rare to observe any kind of hang-up that requires restarting the entire PC. Might be because I use a different set of applications. What applications do you observe these hang-ups with?

Re: Windows 11 has made the “clean Windows install” an oxymoron

#39

Post by nraynaud »

jamal-kumar wrote: post #3

Has anyone become so disillusioned with windows that they just have a windows pc sitting around collecting dust? Sometimes I still need to use some legacy program or whatever on there but I feel like the last time I booted into that thing was over a month ago now.

I do, but I’m an independent software contractor, so sometimes I need to do windows stuff. It’s also useful to lend to house visitors.

Re: Windows 11 has made the “clean Windows install” an oxymoron

#40

Post by hardware2win »

fidotron wrote: post #6

The modern iteration of the Start menu is a particular travesty and has been rendered all but unusable in order to push you to Bing by accident. Microsoft simply must believe that Windows can survive the users hating this crap, and I fear they are right. For myself 11 was bad enough to finally try out Steam on Debian and was pleasantly surprised. KDE is closer to being the Windows desktop I want than Windows 11 is, w…

I agree

Start menu is slow as shit

I have w11 at work and w10 at home and i see the diff

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