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“Green smoothie cleanse” causing acute oxalate nephropathy

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

71–80 of 171 posts

Re: “Green smoothie cleanse” causing acute oxalate nephropathy

#71
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RIP Steve Jobs. It was likely his Apple-only diet that did him in. He would go to these orchards in NorCal and disappear for weeks on end, eating only apples the whole time. He tried eating apples aggressively to cure his colon cancer and it appears to have exacerbated it.

This is simply not true and reads like a convenient anecdote to make a point. "Founder of Apple only eats... apples! Omg lol"

apples he found.

Re: “Green smoothie cleanse” causing acute oxalate nephropathy

#72

The "cleanse" notion is batty. A functioning urinary and excretory system is all the "cleanse" one needs.

It came about as a marketing gimmick due to the scientific reality of widespread contamination of food, water and air with persistent chemicals that accumulate in human bodies, e.g. PCBs in breast milk and so on. It's also a reality that many 'natural' substance accumulate and persist in the body and are only slowly excreted particularly if they have a nonpolar oily affinity (this is why THC testing, i.e. marijuana urine tests, work).

The reason it's batty is that nobody who markets these products ever does a scientific study to see if their 'cleanse' program has any measureable effect on the rate your body excretes various pollutants and contaminants, relative to the normal background turnover. Generally, removing the source of the contamination is more important than anything else, e.g. lead poisoning from contaminated water supplies and so on.

Re: “Green smoothie cleanse” causing acute oxalate nephropathy

#73
post #70
post #66

I've been arguing for years with vegans who drink copious amounts for thyroid-damaging kale and kidney-stone-forming spinach juices. Many of the plants are rich in anti-nutrients and natural toxins to weed off predators. Having a normal-size salad is one thing, drinking 2 pounds of kale is something else. People should learn more abou Hormesis and why too much of the bad thing is bad and too little of it is a good th…

you meant plants, not plans. am I right?

Yes, thank you!

Re: “Green smoothie cleanse” causing acute oxalate nephropathy

#74
post #66

I've been arguing for years with vegans who drink copious amounts for thyroid-damaging kale and kidney-stone-forming spinach juices. Many of the plants are rich in anti-nutrients and natural toxins to weed off predators. Having a normal-size salad is one thing, drinking 2 pounds of kale is something else. People should learn more abou Hormesis and why too much of the bad thing is bad and too little of it is a good th…

Fact check: Kale only has 20mg of oxalates per 100g which means 2 lbs has about 180mg of oxalates. https://e-cnr.org/ViewImage.php?Type=TH&aid=487614&id=T9&afn... 180mg of oxalates isn't that much. Most people consume 200 to 300 mg of oxalates per day: https://www.webmd.com/diet/foods-high-in-oxalates and with regards to water. I believe, it's when you sip on water all day that the danger of brain swelling occurs bec…

Kale has goitrogens - that's why I said "thyroid-damaging."

Re: “Green smoothie cleanse” causing acute oxalate nephropathy

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the meat. If it’s western raised pork or chicken, they bioaccumulate omega-6 from their feed that the percentage of their fat that’s omega-6 can rivals or exceed that of “vegetable” oils. Ruminants seem to resist this bioaccumulation. So the wrong meat give you all the same lovely effects of systemic inflammation, paradoxical immune suppression, metabolism suppression, and the pile of strange effects from…

I'm no expert in the matter, but this seems to contradict what you're saying in terms of effects from too much of it: https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/no-need-to...

The key part of those studies is that they were comparing omega-6 fats to saturated fats like butter. They are healthier than saturated fats all else being equal, but that doesn't mean you should have that much of it.

Re: “Green smoothie cleanse” causing acute oxalate nephropathy

#76
I've seen a version of this in person.

Used to go to this restaurant after my Saturday morning movie, just to have lunch. This wee gal working there on that shift, usually, noted that I would pull my ticket stub out (along with other things I was planning on pitching) and began to regularly ask me what I thought of whatever movie I had seen.

One Saturday I came in and was instantly struck with a kind of floating anxiety, that something was wrong. Well, it smelled like someone who was very, very ill. I see her and her color is all off: pale but for two spots of color. Her respiration is fast, shallow, and her rib cage looks lifted. As in there is a lot of pain on one or both sides above the hips. When I get to the counter, I ask if she's alright trying to play cool about it (inside I am freaking out a bit). She says she's going home in a few hours. And what can I do?

I can't finish my lunch, I'm so keyed up because everything is telling me that this is a very sick person. As I leave, I am trying to be casual but again ask if she has someone to come pick her up. She says she'll be fine.

She's not there for the next four or five weeks.

When she returns, she tells me that she collapsed a couple of hours later and spent a week in the hospital with septicemia from her kidney infection from some obstruction. Apparently kidney stuff runs in her family when they get older. But she's young. I look at her nails, something in the corners. I use my nose again. Because this is kind of a healthy place. Again, trying to be casual, "Hey, do you like spinach?" She proceeds to tell me how she loves spinach and just "grazes" on it constantly at work. "Handfuls," according to her. Because this place throws uncooked spinach leaves on everything.

I scribble down on the back of a receipt a note for her to bring to her doctor during followup, because my guess is she just grazed herself into some oxalate stones. Been very wary of spinach since.

Re: “Green smoothie cleanse” causing acute oxalate nephropathy

#77
post #4

This is why I tell people to go easy on the spinach when they’re making smoothies.

I offer, somewhat tongue-in-cheek, this lecture: Don't eat plants; they're trying to kill you! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1cqNDDG4aA I usually forward it to friends that rant about meat being bad for your health.

What is his angle on why so much disease is associated with meat

Re: “Green smoothie cleanse” causing acute oxalate nephropathy

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I offer, somewhat tongue-in-cheek, this lecture: Don't eat plants; they're trying to kill you! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1cqNDDG4aA I usually forward it to friends that rant about meat being bad for your health.

Depends on the meat. If it’s western raised pork or chicken, they bioaccumulate omega-6 from their feed that the percentage of their fat that’s omega-6 can rivals or exceed that of “vegetable” oils. Ruminants seem to resist this bioaccumulation. So the wrong meat give you all the same lovely effects of systemic inflammation, paradoxical immune suppression, metabolism suppression, and the pile of strange effects from…

Aren't saturated fats from plants like palm oil and coconut oil also associated with those negative outcomes?

Re: “Green smoothie cleanse” causing acute oxalate nephropathy

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A̶r̶s̶e̶n̶i̶c̶ Cyanide is the thing to watch for I believe. Stay away from bitter almonds, roasted should be fine. You'd have to eat a 25 Kg bag of sweet almonds to get into trouble. Not sure about the cumulative effects though, that might be worth checking into.

Not Arsenic, but rather bitter almonds contain compounds that the body degrades into cyanide.

Cyanogenic glycosides. Amygdalin in bitter almond.

Re: “Green smoothie cleanse” causing acute oxalate nephropathy

#80
This is the most important part

> Predisposing factors included a remote history of gastric bypass and recent prolonged antibiotic therapy

I knew as soon as I saw it, and the keyword confirms it: a fluoroquinolone, moxifloxacin was used.

FQs like cipro and levaquin are well documented to cause permanent full body damage through all sorts of mechanisms. Including acute kidney injury https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3708027/

And the effects are worse for older populations.

The diet was likely unrelated to the kidney injury.

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