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“Green smoothie cleanse” causing acute oxalate nephropathy

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

21–30 of 171 posts

Re: “Green smoothie cleanse” causing acute oxalate nephropathy

#21
post #4

This is why I tell people to go easy on the spinach when they’re making smoothies.

Because of a case study of one woman who did a fad cleanse and had predisposers like a gastric bypass and prolonged antibiotic therapy?

Hmm? Oxalates causing less severe damage (kidney stones) is more common than just one woman. If you are a vegan you know you need to go easy on things like raw spinach and almonds.

Re: “Green smoothie cleanse” causing acute oxalate nephropathy

#22

Given that this is a case report rather than a study, what confidence can a layman such as myself have that the report suggests causation? Asking in earnest; I don't want to read this and then repeat it to people if it's not really true.

I would skip this case study and just research the impacts of too many oxalates.

Re: “Green smoothie cleanse” causing acute oxalate nephropathy

#23

Given that this is a case report rather than a study, what confidence can a layman such as myself have that the report suggests causation? Asking in earnest; I don't want to read this and then repeat it to people if it's not really true.

Almost every study on that page links a separate case of gastric bypass with later oxalate dietary issues. There are other reasons to be aware of oxalate intake but it’s like that one woman who almost overdosed on raw bok choi (iirc 1-1.5 kg per day https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc0911005) a little moderation in all things.

Re: “Green smoothie cleanse” causing acute oxalate nephropathy

#24

In the report's keywords it mentions spinach. How much spinach is ok vs too much? Is this issue caused by consuming too much spinach or by consuming spinach in combination with specific foods found in green smoothies?

With oxalate nephropathy, I have an oxalate budget of 100/day - 2 oz of dark chocolate covers that. But then, if one is concerned, citrates provide a first-line defense,e.g. 4 oz of lemmon juice, or,say, calcium or potassium citrate. That doesn't stop things, but it helps. In your microbiome, oxalobacter formigenes is the primary defense. Lose that from, say, antibiotics or IBS, and you've got problems.

Let me build on that visit https://elicit.org/ and type in a research question like "what causes oxalate nephropathy" and look at the results (elicit is free). That happens to be where I found the paper linked at the top.

Re: “Green smoothie cleanse” causing acute oxalate nephropathy

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because of a case study of one woman who did a fad cleanse and had predisposers like a gastric bypass and prolonged antibiotic therapy?

Hmm? Oxalates causing less severe damage (kidney stones) is more common than just one woman. If you are a vegan you know you need to go easy on things like raw spinach and almonds.

Could you bring some empirics to the table for normal people having a common problem with oxalates at normal doses without predisposing issues like kidney disease or the ones the woman had in the case study?

Does "going easy on oxalates" just mean you have fewer than six spinach smoothies per day?

I'm used to these dietary memes cashing out into either trivial claims or nothing burgers.

Re: “Green smoothie cleanse” causing acute oxalate nephropathy

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because of a case study of one woman who did a fad cleanse and had predisposers like a gastric bypass and prolonged antibiotic therapy?

Hmm? Oxalates causing less severe damage (kidney stones) is more common than just one woman. If you are a vegan you know you need to go easy on things like raw spinach and almonds.

Wait how easy do I need to go on the almonds? I’ve been eating maybe half a pound a week.

Despite your statement I don’t think this knowledge is automatically distributed amongst vegans.

Re: “Green smoothie cleanse” causing acute oxalate nephropathy

#28
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm? Oxalates causing less severe damage (kidney stones) is more common than just one woman. If you are a vegan you know you need to go easy on things like raw spinach and almonds.

Wait how easy do I need to go on the almonds? I’ve been eating maybe half a pound a week. Despite your statement I don’t think this knowledge is automatically distributed amongst vegans.

A̶r̶s̶e̶n̶i̶c̶ Cyanide is the thing to watch for I believe. Stay away from bitter almonds, roasted should be fine. You'd have to eat a 25 Kg bag of sweet almonds to get into trouble. Not sure about the cumulative effects though, that might be worth checking into.

Re: “Green smoothie cleanse” causing acute oxalate nephropathy

#29
post #8
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure it makes a lot of people feel better, but almost certainly because of the cessation of whatever dietary behavior was causing them to feel bad in the first place, as opposed to eliminating some undefined "toxin."

And as we can see in this case, most of the toxins that you secrete after a "cleanse" are from the "cleanse" liquid itself! Though to play debil's[0] advocate for a second, the body can retain toxins from the environment, e.g. heavy metals, chemicals from plastics, etc. So there is some basis in the idea of trying to purge toxins, but if you find a way to do that with a smoothie from store bought vegetables, you woul…

Words like toxin, detox, cleanse, and rejuvenation are red-flag words that almost always indicate quackery[1]. It's like this generation's "crystal healing".

1: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/dec/05/detox-m...

Re: “Green smoothie cleanse” causing acute oxalate nephropathy

#30

The "cleanse" notion is batty. A functioning urinary and excretory system is all the "cleanse" one needs.

It's like the idea that getting a massage releases all the toxins in your body and you need to drink water after to flush them out. That's what they always tell me after I get one. I have to restrain laughter.

Even though the toxins myth is incorrect, drinking lots of water after is a good idea.

A deep tissue massage can cause mild rhabdomyolysis, which is where broken down cells (from the massage) get dumped into the blood. Water will help dilute urine while this occurs. Many massage therapists probably do think that there are harmful toxins get released, though.

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