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Californian Roads Could Soon Have Speed Cameras Issuing Tickets

nytimes.com

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Re: Californian Roads Could Soon Have Speed Cameras Issuing Tickets

#51

Post by autoexec »

Scoundreller wrote: post #15

I wish they took the French and German (and elsewhere approach) where they use some of the revenue to identify the driver and fine them + penalize their license. If you just send the ticket to whomever is the easiest to target (regardless of guilt), then it’s more about revenue than safety.

> I wish they took the French and German (and elsewhere approach) where they use some of the revenue to identify the driver and fine them + penalize their license.

I also hope California takes the French and German approach (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46822472) (http://thenewspaper.com/news/29/2975.asp)

Re: Californian Roads Could Soon Have Speed Cameras Issuing Tickets

#52

Post by Scoundreller »

lukas099 wrote: post #45
Scoundreller wrote: post #15

I wish they took the French and German (and elsewhere approach) where they use some of the revenue to identify the driver and fine them + penalize their license. If you just send the ticket to whomever is the easiest to target (regardless of guilt), then it’s more about revenue than safety.

> If you just send the ticket to whomever is the easiest to target (regardless of guilt), then it’s more about revenue than safety. If you lend your car to someone, you are taking responsibility for the way they drive that car. If you can't do that, you shouldn't lend them your car.

> If you lend your ____ to someone, you are taking responsibility

No I’m not, they are.

Re: Californian Roads Could Soon Have Speed Cameras Issuing Tickets

#53

Post by Scoundreller »

autoexec wrote: post #51
Scoundreller wrote: post #15

I wish they took the French and German (and elsewhere approach) where they use some of the revenue to identify the driver and fine them + penalize their license. If you just send the ticket to whomever is the easiest to target (regardless of guilt), then it’s more about revenue than safety.

> I wish they took the French and German (and elsewhere approach) where they use some of the revenue to identify the driver and fine them + penalize their license. I also hope California takes the French and German approach ( https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46822472 ) ( http://thenewspaper.com/news/29/2975.asp )

Heh, yellow vests in every car accessible to the driver. When I heard that was a requirement in Europe, I bought one for my trip there and keep one in my American car now.

What a fantastic idea I thought. Should be a requirement in North America too, given our unreliable vehicles and expanses of unlit roads.

But thanks to the French making it a protest tool, I don’t see it ever happening.

Re: Californian Roads Could Soon Have Speed Cameras Issuing Tickets

#54

Post by autoexec »

Scoundreller wrote: post #53
autoexec wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish they took the French and German (and elsewhere approach) where they use some of the revenue to identify the driver and fine them + penalize their license. I also hope California takes the French and German approach ( https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46822472 ) ( http://thenewspaper.com/news/29/2975.asp )

Heh, yellow vests in every car accessible to the driver. When I heard that was a requirement in Europe, I bought one for my trip there and keep one in my American car now. What a fantastic idea I thought. Should be a requirement in North America too, given our unreliable vehicles and expanses of unlit roads. But thanks to the French making it a protest tool, I don’t see it ever happening.

Not a terrible idea at all to have a high vis jacket in your car in the US. They can be non-yellow if we want to avoid the association. If we're picking up good ideas from other countries I think North America could benefit from requiring Koreisha marks ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kōreisha_mark) too.

Re: Californian Roads Could Soon Have Speed Cameras Issuing Tickets

#55

Post by Scoundreller »

throw310822 wrote: post #11
garciasn wrote: post #7

From the article: It would make California the 19th state to install cameras that would automatically issue tickets to the owners of vehicles that are spotted exceeding the speed limit by at least 11 miles an hour. [...] The fines could be reduced if the vehicle owner is unable to pay. [...] “We’re out to change behavior. We’re not out to be punitive.” --- So: 1. The unintended consequence is that more people may fee…

> Those who can afford the $50 fine (which, knowing CA, is a big part of the population) That's why fines should always be proportional to income. They are not the price of a product, they are the price that should make a behaviour equally unaffordable for everyone.

I’d like to add a vehicle weight co-factor to the fines.

Re: Californian Roads Could Soon Have Speed Cameras Issuing Tickets

#56

Post by dpkirchner »

lukas099 wrote: post #43
dpkirchner wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only people complaining are the ones who want to disregard road laws because they don't care about the danger they pose to others, and like that there's barely any enforcement. I question whether or not this will lead to safer roads. It doesn't stop people from getting where they want to go at unsafe speeds, it just adds a toll that many will be happy to pay. It doesn't and can't always impact the actual driver…

It will lead to a reduction of speeding. And the people who do speed will at least pay for some of their negative externalities.

Unfortunately I cannot read the article -- do the fines really go towards the victims of excessive speed (the negative externalities, like in a trust fund) or to the state general fund + company providing the hardware and software?

Re: Californian Roads Could Soon Have Speed Cameras Issuing Tickets

#57

Post by sublinear »

lukas099 wrote: post #44
sublinear wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is automation of a dangerous job that is expensive to pay the labor costs of. That's our thing, folks! That's what tech is all about! Automation can't solve what good government and good civil engineering can. This didn't roll all the way over to us because anyone sane actually thinks we're going to solve jack shit.

Enforcement is part of good government and good civil engineering.

Good civil engineering is invisible deterrence. Cities insist on putting overbuilt 4+ lane stroads in neighborhoods with speed limits set far lower than they're designed for. This is what causes people to speed. Speeding seems safe and ok until they run over a pedestrian and/or miss a stop or yield sign that is far out of the field of view of the driver. Stroads are also bad for pedestrian safety in general even if nobody is speeding because of the long crosswalks. A proper street would feel narrow for the driver and discourage speeding. Neither cameras nor speed bumps work as well as just reducing the lanes. One solution is road dividers, but they look ugly and are frequently damaged.

Good government shouldn't backseat drive civil engineers to make dumb decisions that hurt public safety.

Re: Californian Roads Could Soon Have Speed Cameras Issuing Tickets

#58

Post by halfdan »

dpkirchner wrote: post #36
mabbo wrote: post #16

Of all the places I'd expect negative reactions to this, I'm shocked HN is one of them. This is automation of a dangerous job that is expensive to pay the labor costs of. That's our thing , folks! That's what tech is all about! If you think the speed limits should be higher so you can drive faster, fine, but that's completely orthogonal to the point here. Better enforcement of road laws, fewer police deaths from road…

> The only people complaining are the ones who want to disregard road laws because they don't care about the danger they pose to others, and like that there's barely any enforcement. I question whether or not this will lead to safer roads. It doesn't stop people from getting where they want to go at unsafe speeds, it just adds a toll that many will be happy to pay. It doesn't and can't always impact the actual driver…

The way it works in Germany is that the fine will go to the owner. The owner can then accept the fine or identify who was actually driving when the offence was committed. In case this ends in the dispute the owner can be made to keep a record of all rides - with hefty fines should they not be accurate when a later offence occurs.

Re: Californian Roads Could Soon Have Speed Cameras Issuing Tickets

#59

Post by mistrial9 »

lukas099 wrote: post #41
airza wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to disagree. If the goal is to reduce pedestrian deaths… just make it harder to drive fast. Narrow lanes, speed bumps, continuous sidewalks… all the technology is there and CA is insanely wealthy. Why wire up a surveillance panopticon?

I like traffic calming too, but sometimes people really do go faster than is safe, even on narrow, windy roads with obstacles. Also if they are used on the highway then traffic calming isn't that applicable. I don't think you have a reasonable expectation of privacy when you're driving your licensed car on a public road anyways.

you have never dealt with crooked local law enforcement, it seems; or a local District Attorney who has an ex-wife; or the mysteriously calm, cool and collected insurance inspectors with perfect records.

money outside of the big city can make very unlikely partnerships

Re: Californian Roads Could Soon Have Speed Cameras Issuing Tickets

#60

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

Too old-fashioned. Too passive. Too half-assed.

1.) Make any private or commercial car going over 80mph illegal. No exceptions except law enforcement and emergency services, no grandfathering in, no aftermarket upgrades.

2.) Enforce lower limits by geofencing and active beacons, to be strictly observed by mandatory driver assistance systems. Issue immediate death penalty for circumvention by automated rocket launchers at the next possible free spot.

3.) Also limit the maximal acceleration, no matter if ICE supercar or EV, don't want to have unnecessesary microplastics by needlessly burnt rubber, aren't we?

4.) Do the same for acoustics.

5.) Enjoy.

6.) Move all opposers by force to live in the fenced reservations of the race tracks.

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