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Californian Roads Could Soon Have Speed Cameras Issuing Tickets

nytimes.com

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Re: Californian Roads Could Soon Have Speed Cameras Issuing Tickets

#41

Post by lukas099 »

airza wrote: post #31
mabbo wrote: post #16

Of all the places I'd expect negative reactions to this, I'm shocked HN is one of them. This is automation of a dangerous job that is expensive to pay the labor costs of. That's our thing , folks! That's what tech is all about! If you think the speed limits should be higher so you can drive faster, fine, but that's completely orthogonal to the point here. Better enforcement of road laws, fewer police deaths from road…

I have to disagree. If the goal is to reduce pedestrian deaths… just make it harder to drive fast. Narrow lanes, speed bumps, continuous sidewalks… all the technology is there and CA is insanely wealthy. Why wire up a surveillance panopticon?

I like traffic calming too, but sometimes people really do go faster than is safe, even on narrow, windy roads with obstacles. Also if they are used on the highway then traffic calming isn't that applicable.

I don't think you have a reasonable expectation of privacy when you're driving your licensed car on a public road anyways.

Re: Californian Roads Could Soon Have Speed Cameras Issuing Tickets

#42

Post by gretch »

Scoundreller wrote: post #15

I wish they took the French and German (and elsewhere approach) where they use some of the revenue to identify the driver and fine them + penalize their license. If you just send the ticket to whomever is the easiest to target (regardless of guilt), then it’s more about revenue than safety.

> I wish they took the French and German (and elsewhere approach) where they use some of the revenue to identify the driver and fine them + penalize their license.

I don't think this is really necessary if implemented in california. Here, with the driving culture we have, the driver is going to be 99.9% the owner of the vehicle or their spouse.

If it's a rental car, just charge the rental company and they'll pass it to whoever was renting at the time.

No need to have some kind of investigation that ends the same way each time.

Re: Californian Roads Could Soon Have Speed Cameras Issuing Tickets

#43

Post by lukas099 »

dpkirchner wrote: post #36
mabbo wrote: post #16

Of all the places I'd expect negative reactions to this, I'm shocked HN is one of them. This is automation of a dangerous job that is expensive to pay the labor costs of. That's our thing , folks! That's what tech is all about! If you think the speed limits should be higher so you can drive faster, fine, but that's completely orthogonal to the point here. Better enforcement of road laws, fewer police deaths from road…

> The only people complaining are the ones who want to disregard road laws because they don't care about the danger they pose to others, and like that there's barely any enforcement. I question whether or not this will lead to safer roads. It doesn't stop people from getting where they want to go at unsafe speeds, it just adds a toll that many will be happy to pay. It doesn't and can't always impact the actual driver…

It will lead to a reduction of speeding. And the people who do speed will at least pay for some of their negative externalities.

Re: Californian Roads Could Soon Have Speed Cameras Issuing Tickets

#44

Post by lukas099 »

sublinear wrote: post #38
mabbo wrote: post #16

Of all the places I'd expect negative reactions to this, I'm shocked HN is one of them. This is automation of a dangerous job that is expensive to pay the labor costs of. That's our thing , folks! That's what tech is all about! If you think the speed limits should be higher so you can drive faster, fine, but that's completely orthogonal to the point here. Better enforcement of road laws, fewer police deaths from road…

> This is automation of a dangerous job that is expensive to pay the labor costs of. That's our thing, folks! That's what tech is all about! Automation can't solve what good government and good civil engineering can. This didn't roll all the way over to us because anyone sane actually thinks we're going to solve jack shit.

Enforcement is part of good government and good civil engineering.

Re: Californian Roads Could Soon Have Speed Cameras Issuing Tickets

#45

Post by lukas099 »

Scoundreller wrote: post #15

I wish they took the French and German (and elsewhere approach) where they use some of the revenue to identify the driver and fine them + penalize their license. If you just send the ticket to whomever is the easiest to target (regardless of guilt), then it’s more about revenue than safety.

> If you just send the ticket to whomever is the easiest to target (regardless of guilt), then it’s more about revenue than safety.

If you lend your car to someone, you are taking responsibility for the way they drive that car. If you can't do that, you shouldn't lend them your car.

Re: Californian Roads Could Soon Have Speed Cameras Issuing Tickets

#47

Post by ericmcer »

mabbo wrote: post #16

Of all the places I'd expect negative reactions to this, I'm shocked HN is one of them. This is automation of a dangerous job that is expensive to pay the labor costs of. That's our thing , folks! That's what tech is all about! If you think the speed limits should be higher so you can drive faster, fine, but that's completely orthogonal to the point here. Better enforcement of road laws, fewer police deaths from road…

> The only people complaining are the ones who want to disregard road laws because they don't care about the danger they pose to others, and like that there's barely any enforcement.

It takes away my discretion. If I drive 60 in dense traffic and weave between lanes this system would mark me as legal but I would be putting other people in incredible danger. If I drive 75 on empty roads I would be marked as illegal and dangerous.

Sure people are irresponsible but these black and white automated solutions are scary and not smart enough to be throwing out $500+ fines. Plus with the insurance adjustment going 75 on an empty road could end up costing you $2000+ over a few years.

Re: Californian Roads Could Soon Have Speed Cameras Issuing Tickets

#48

Post by lukas099 »

garciasn wrote: post #7

From the article: It would make California the 19th state to install cameras that would automatically issue tickets to the owners of vehicles that are spotted exceeding the speed limit by at least 11 miles an hour. [...] The fines could be reduced if the vehicle owner is unable to pay. [...] “We’re out to change behavior. We’re not out to be punitive.” --- So: 1. The unintended consequence is that more people may fee…

> more people may feel comfortable going 8-10 mph over the limit.

Is that more or less than the current status quo? I'm not in California but it sounds like everyone feels comfortable doing that anyways.

Also you can still enforce 1-10 mph over the old fashioned way.

> Those who can afford the $50 fine (which, knowing CA, is a big part of the population) without any other consequences will end up ignoring it and just paying the fee or using their significant wealth to fight the fees.

Doing this every time you speed would add up very quickly. Also if you're talking about middle class people $50 is not amount that feels like nothing to them.

> The rest of the people just won't pay it because they cannot afford it.

Like you said, this is a very small number of people that we probably don't need to be punished any more by society.

Re: Californian Roads Could Soon Have Speed Cameras Issuing Tickets

#49

Post by swsdsailor »

asdajksah2123 wrote: post #5
exabrial wrote: post #3

California keeps finding more reasons for me to never live there.

Cameras issuing tickets to people driving 11 miles over the speed limit "on streets that are hot spots for street racing, or are in school zones, or have a high number of collisions" is where you draw the line?

Sounds like you would love China.

Re: Californian Roads Could Soon Have Speed Cameras Issuing Tickets

#50

Post by bryanlarsen »

phil21 wrote: post #35
asdajksah2123 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cameras issuing tickets to people driving 11 miles over the speed limit "on streets that are hot spots for street racing, or are in school zones, or have a high number of collisions" is where you draw the line?

This is how it's pitched. Then in a few years you likely will find it outsourced to a third party contractor, who has helpfully worked with the city or county to place the cameras in convenient spots that just happen to generate a ton of revenue. I'm not totally against the idea, but at least where I live these red light and speeding cameras have devolved into ways to gain revenue vs. safety just by taking note of wh…

According to the law, all cameras must be explicitly marked with a sign. So if its designed to increase revenue it's not going to be very effective.
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