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Californian Roads Could Soon Have Speed Cameras Issuing Tickets

nytimes.com

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Re: Californian Roads Could Soon Have Speed Cameras Issuing Tickets

#31

Post by airza »

mabbo wrote: post #16

Of all the places I'd expect negative reactions to this, I'm shocked HN is one of them. This is automation of a dangerous job that is expensive to pay the labor costs of. That's our thing , folks! That's what tech is all about! If you think the speed limits should be higher so you can drive faster, fine, but that's completely orthogonal to the point here. Better enforcement of road laws, fewer police deaths from road…

I have to disagree. If the goal is to reduce pedestrian deaths… just make it harder to drive fast. Narrow lanes, speed bumps, continuous sidewalks… all the technology is there and CA is insanely wealthy. Why wire up a surveillance panopticon?

Re: Californian Roads Could Soon Have Speed Cameras Issuing Tickets

#32

Post by pfannkuchen »

It would be amazing if speeding was enforced 100%, and then the official limits were pushed up where needed. This business where everyone drives above the limit and cops enforce when they feel like it is annoying and is a big enabler of bias in policing.

Re: Californian Roads Could Soon Have Speed Cameras Issuing Tickets

#33

Post by phil21 »

mint2 wrote: post #13
garciasn wrote: post #7

From the article: It would make California the 19th state to install cameras that would automatically issue tickets to the owners of vehicles that are spotted exceeding the speed limit by at least 11 miles an hour. [...] The fines could be reduced if the vehicle owner is unable to pay. [...] “We’re out to change behavior. We’re not out to be punitive.” --- So: 1. The unintended consequence is that more people may fee…

It would be really nice to see the fines scale up with income, but as long as the tickets are valid for insurance pricing then racking up a couple tickets is still going to cost a lot more than $50 each. It will also make insurance pricing more fair as currently unsafe drivers mostly speed with impunity in cities like sf where traffic enforcement is nonexistent.

They don't typically count as a moving violation, since you have the right to face your accuser in court. As far as I understand the situation.

They are more like parking tickets than a speeding ticket.

I imagine this varies some by state, but I believe it to be a fundamental constitutional issue at play.

Re: Californian Roads Could Soon Have Speed Cameras Issuing Tickets

#34

Post by badlucklottery »

Jiro wrote: post #23
throw310822 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those who can afford the $50 fine (which, knowing CA, is a big part of the population) That's why fines should always be proportional to income. They are not the price of a product, they are the price that should make a behaviour equally unaffordable for everyone.

By that reasoning, if you don't have a job, so being put in jail won't make you lose your job, you should be jailed longer to make up for the fact that jail harms you less. Likewise if you don't have children.

> if you don't have a job, so being put in jail won't make you lose your job, you should be jailed longer to make up for the fact that jail harms you less.

I know you were being facetious but, due to how the US legal system works, if you don't have a job/income, you likely have worse legal representation, which means you get a worse plea deal, and do go to jail longer.

And having children/family to care for usually does affect sentencing.

So you inadvertently described the current system in the US.

Re: Californian Roads Could Soon Have Speed Cameras Issuing Tickets

#35

Post by phil21 »

asdajksah2123 wrote: post #5
exabrial wrote: post #3

California keeps finding more reasons for me to never live there.

Cameras issuing tickets to people driving 11 miles over the speed limit "on streets that are hot spots for street racing, or are in school zones, or have a high number of collisions" is where you draw the line?

This is how it's pitched.

Then in a few years you likely will find it outsourced to a third party contractor, who has helpfully worked with the city or county to place the cameras in convenient spots that just happen to generate a ton of revenue.

I'm not totally against the idea, but at least where I live these red light and speeding cameras have devolved into ways to gain revenue vs. safety just by taking note of where they happen to be placed (and not).

There also has been an overall push to slowly reduce the threshold for activation of the cameras. Started as egregious speeding, now it's 6 over. The outcome is of course exactly what you would predict: everyone figures out where the cameras are and slams on the brakes for that block only. Super safe!

Re: Californian Roads Could Soon Have Speed Cameras Issuing Tickets

#36

Post by dpkirchner »

mabbo wrote: post #16

Of all the places I'd expect negative reactions to this, I'm shocked HN is one of them. This is automation of a dangerous job that is expensive to pay the labor costs of. That's our thing , folks! That's what tech is all about! If you think the speed limits should be higher so you can drive faster, fine, but that's completely orthogonal to the point here. Better enforcement of road laws, fewer police deaths from road…

> The only people complaining are the ones who want to disregard road laws because they don't care about the danger they pose to others, and like that there's barely any enforcement.

I question whether or not this will lead to safer roads. It doesn't stop people from getting where they want to go at unsafe speeds, it just adds a toll that many will be happy to pay. It doesn't and can't always impact the actual driver, either, because the system can only fine the owner. There ya go, someone not interested in disregarding road laws.

Re: Californian Roads Could Soon Have Speed Cameras Issuing Tickets

#37

Post by throw310822 »

Jiro wrote: post #23
throw310822 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those who can afford the $50 fine (which, knowing CA, is a big part of the population) That's why fines should always be proportional to income. They are not the price of a product, they are the price that should make a behaviour equally unaffordable for everyone.

By that reasoning, if you don't have a job, so being put in jail won't make you lose your job, you should be jailed longer to make up for the fact that jail harms you less. Likewise if you don't have children.

The objection that perfecting something beyond what's practical would be unfeasible is not a good one against making it better within reasonable limits, right?

It's very difficult to quantify the harm that jail does to you. It depends on a lot of factors, some of which are entirely personal, and besides, jail has multiple functions (in short: dissuasion, retribution, prevention and re-education). A fine exists mostly for dissuasion, and has a very precise economical value that is easy to gauge on the income/ wealth of the person fined.

Re: Californian Roads Could Soon Have Speed Cameras Issuing Tickets

#38

Post by sublinear »

mabbo wrote: post #16

Of all the places I'd expect negative reactions to this, I'm shocked HN is one of them. This is automation of a dangerous job that is expensive to pay the labor costs of. That's our thing , folks! That's what tech is all about! If you think the speed limits should be higher so you can drive faster, fine, but that's completely orthogonal to the point here. Better enforcement of road laws, fewer police deaths from road…

> This is automation of a dangerous job that is expensive to pay the labor costs of. That's our thing, folks! That's what tech is all about!

Automation can't solve what good government and good civil engineering can. This didn't roll all the way over to us because anyone sane actually thinks we're going to solve jack shit.

Re: Californian Roads Could Soon Have Speed Cameras Issuing Tickets

#39

Post by phil21 »

Jiro wrote: post #23
throw310822 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those who can afford the $50 fine (which, knowing CA, is a big part of the population) That's why fines should always be proportional to income. They are not the price of a product, they are the price that should make a behaviour equally unaffordable for everyone.

By that reasoning, if you don't have a job, so being put in jail won't make you lose your job, you should be jailed longer to make up for the fact that jail harms you less. Likewise if you don't have children.

This is precisely how it works in the US when it comes to most low level sentences.

Impact on career and family (kids, mostly) is a major consideration when it comes to sentencing. For better or worse.

Re: Californian Roads Could Soon Have Speed Cameras Issuing Tickets

#40

Post by Isthatablackgsd »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #32

It would be amazing if speeding was enforced 100%, and then the official limits were pushed up where needed. This business where everyone drives above the limit and cops enforce when they feel like it is annoying and is a big enabler of bias in policing.

Their selective enforcement in SoCal is annoying. Majority of us are speeding above the limit and they don't even bat an eye. I got a ticket for going above the limit when I was following the flow of the traffic. I guess they are more interested in exercising their power when they felt like it.
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