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If you travel to China, be aware of an exit ban

harrisbricken.com

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Re: If you travel to China, be aware of an exit ban

#61

Post by woooooo »

canucker2016 wrote: post #27
ecshafer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think my freedom is at risk when I go there honestly. There are probably people in some fields or businesses that do have some risk. But I think the fears are overblown.

As long as you or any relation/acquaintance/company/nation you belong to do not offend China, you're cool. Case in point: the two Michaels from Canada detained 'suddenly' after a Huawei executive was detained in Canada in relation to a US govt case: https://globalnews.ca/news/8224094/canada-china-two-michaels... Though a third Canadian had his conviction retried to a worse sentence - death.

Why is it just accepted that Huawei executives can be detained by the west, though? I don't think taking vengeance on random civilians is justified, but it was a response to us doing the same thing to one of theirs. It's only bad when they do it?

Re: If you travel to China, be aware of an exit ban

#62

Post by richbell »

nimbius wrote: post #49
ProjectArcturis wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Legal experts say virtually any party to a civil dispute in China involving a foreign national can ask local police to add their opponent’s name to a national database of exit bans that police check at every airport, railway station and other border crossing... That is certainly not how things are in most Western countries.

Except in Canada where huawei's executive got the same treatment, or the US where the no fly list exists with little recourse.

> Except in Canada where huawei's executive got the same treatment

This is an extremely bad faith claim. Unless you're claiming the two Michaels detained by China (in retaliation) also got to live a lavish lifestyle in a mansion.

Re: If you travel to China, be aware of an exit ban

#63

Post by richbell »

woooooo wrote: post #61
canucker2016 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as you or any relation/acquaintance/company/nation you belong to do not offend China, you're cool. Case in point: the two Michaels from Canada detained 'suddenly' after a Huawei executive was detained in Canada in relation to a US govt case: https://globalnews.ca/news/8224094/canada-china-two-michaels... Though a third Canadian had his conviction retried to a worse sentence - death.

Why is it just accepted that Huawei executives can be detained by the west, though? I don't think taking vengeance on random civilians is justified, but it was a response to us doing the same thing to one of theirs. It's only bad when they do it?

> Why is it just accepted that Huawei executives can be detained by the west, though?

The claim behind that at least appeared to have merit, so she — ostensibly — wasn't just detained because someone didn't like her. She also enjoyed the full benefit of the western legal system and lived lavishly, meanwhile the two Michaels were basically political prisoners.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-huawei-iran-sanctions-exc...

Re: If you travel to China, be aware of an exit ban

#64

Post by woooooo »

richbell wrote: post #63
woooooo wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it just accepted that Huawei executives can be detained by the west, though? I don't think taking vengeance on random civilians is justified, but it was a response to us doing the same thing to one of theirs. It's only bad when they do it?

> Why is it just accepted that Huawei executives can be detained by the west, though? The claim behind that at least appeared to have merit, so she — ostensibly — wasn't just detained because someone didn't like her. She also enjoyed the full benefit of the western legal system and lived lavishly, meanwhile the two Michaels were basically political prisoners. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-huawei-iran-sanctions-e…

Neither she nor the nation of China are party to sanctions on Iran. They have no obligations to follow American foreign policy.

If you're saying, ultimately, "because we can", then fine but that's not great moral ground.

Re: If you travel to China, be aware of an exit ban

#65

Post by foverzar »

jamesaurichs wrote: post #45
LeoNatan25 wrote: post #9

Don't travel to China.

People aren't. latest number is showing that traveling to China collapsed 95%. incidentally, FDI collapsed "in the second quarter of 2023 foreign investors “only put about $5bn of fresh capital into China […] in 2021, we saw close to $100bn per quarter!” https://unherd.com/thepost/foreign-investment-plummets-as-th...

Traveling collapse is likely COVID related. They've only recently started processing tourist visas once again, as far as I understand.

Re: If you travel to China, be aware of an exit ban

#66

Post by moomoo11 »

gehwartzen wrote: post #36
moomoo11 wrote: post #32

I’ll be honest. As an American (originally from 3rd world country) I have zero intention of traveling internationally. Why would I? I live in the best country in the world. For tech, startups, lifestyle, food (i can eat any cuisine from around the world and access to amazing restaurants), hiking, etc. The last place I'd visit is some authoritarian place.

your doing yourself a disservice judging the US the best country in the world without at least seeing for yourself.

I'm from a 3rd world country lol. I've seen enough, and most of the problems are caused by a small group of people in the world. In USA I feel safe and have opportunities I never have before.

Re: If you travel to China, be aware of an exit ban

#67

Post by nyokodo »

foverzar wrote: post #60
LeoNatan25 wrote: post #9

Don't travel to China.

And miss making a personal impression of a country surrounded by so many myths? Good advice for people scared of their own shadow, bad advice for everyone else. Because honestly: > The typical reasons for the Chinese government imposing an exit ban that prohibits a foreigner from leaving China is for allegedly committing a crime, allegedly owing money to a Chinese company, or being in some other sort of dispute with…

> This is something that I would expect visiting literally any country.

To an extent, yes. However, context is key as the fairness and/or arbitrariness of those laws and how they are enforced vary wildly between countries. Merely avoiding breaking the law is a lot more difficult in an outright fascist dictatorship surveillance state like China than even the most surveillance happy western nations. So, while you should follow the law in all countries you visit (or at least know what you’re risking), some countries make that more like a tap dance across a minefield.

Re: If you travel to China, be aware of an exit ban

#68

Post by richbell »

woooooo wrote: post #64
richbell wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is it just accepted that Huawei executives can be detained by the west, though? The claim behind that at least appeared to have merit, so she — ostensibly — wasn't just detained because someone didn't like her. She also enjoyed the full benefit of the western legal system and lived lavishly, meanwhile the two Michaels were basically political prisoners. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-huawei-iran-sanctions-e…

Neither she nor the nation of China are party to sanctions on Iran. They have no obligations to follow American foreign policy. If you're saying, ultimately, "because we can", then fine but that's not great moral ground.

> Neither she nor the nation of China are party to sanctions on Iran. They have no obligations to follow American foreign policy.

Huawei operates outside of China, therefore it's reasonable to expect them to comply with laws and sections from other countries. At the very least, if you're going to violate US sanctions, I wouldn't live in or travel to the US or an affiliated country.

> If you're saying, ultimately, "because we can", then fine but that's not great moral ground.

I am not making any such claim, nor am I American. I'm just pointing out that "person arrested for being involved in explicitly breaking sanctions" and "two random citizens held hostage on vague charges" aren't comparable.

Re: If you travel to China, be aware of an exit ban

#69

Post by woooooo »

richbell wrote: post #68
woooooo wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither she nor the nation of China are party to sanctions on Iran. They have no obligations to follow American foreign policy. If you're saying, ultimately, "because we can", then fine but that's not great moral ground.

> Neither she nor the nation of China are party to sanctions on Iran. They have no obligations to follow American foreign policy. Huawei operates outside of China, therefore it's reasonable to expect them to comply with laws and sections from other countries. At the very least, if you're going to violate US sanctions, I wouldn't live in or travel to the US or an affiliated country. > If you're saying, ultimately, "be…

We already forbid export of chips and other technology to them.

I suppose it was unwise of her to enter Canada, but again, you're ceding any moral high ground here.

Re: If you travel to China, be aware of an exit ban

#70

Post by nyokodo »

foverzar wrote: post #65
jamesaurichs wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People aren't. latest number is showing that traveling to China collapsed 95%. incidentally, FDI collapsed "in the second quarter of 2023 foreign investors “only put about $5bn of fresh capital into China […] in 2021, we saw close to $100bn per quarter!” https://unherd.com/thepost/foreign-investment-plummets-as-th...

Traveling collapse is likely COVID related. They've only recently started processing tourist visas once again, as far as I understand.

> They've only recently started processing tourist visas once again

The whole welding people into a building that then burns down is a difficult thing for Tourism Departments to compensate for.

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