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Zoom terms now allow training AI on user content with no opt out

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Re: Zoom terms now allow training AI on user content with no opt out

#241

Post by unnah »

nemoniac wrote: post #207
jonas21 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Section 4 of the Jitsi Meet ToS grants them similar rights. It's just with mushier language. > You give 8×8 (and those we work with) a worldwide license to use, host, store, reproduce, modify, create derivative works..., communicate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display, and distribute such content solely for the limited purpose of operating and enabling the Service to work as intended for You and for no other…

Wait, what is "the service" here? As I understand it, it refers to using meet.jitsi.si, not "another service" someone might provide by downloading the Jitsi software and running it on their own server. Please correct me if I'm wrong since this would give me cause to reconsider running a Jitsi server.

It's "the Service" with capital S, indicating that it is a term specifically defined in the contract. Here "the Service" is defined as "the meet.jit.si service, including related software applications". If that's not vague enough, article 2 gives 8x8 the right to change, modify, etc. the Service at any time without any notice.

The guys at 8x8 may be well intentioned, but their lawyers have done their best to not give the customer any basis to sue the company in any foreseeable circumstances. That is what company lawyers do, for better or worse.

Regardless, it appears that at present time jitsi is not including AI training in their service, and there is no explicit carve-out in their terms for AI training. However, by article 2 they do have the right to store user content, which might become a problem in the future.

Re: Zoom terms now allow training AI on user content with no opt out

#242

Post by hammock »

eh9 wrote: post #234

I do therapy and group therapy on Zoom, are they going to train a therapist AI? Does this go around HIPAA privacy rules? Would they keep a file on phi?

The ToS clearly says all "Customer Content/Customer Input" AKA your words, text, voice, face, etc can be used for "Product and Services Development" which could as easily be a facial recognition database, an FBI-style database of dirt on individuals, or literally anything else before it's an AI.

Re: Zoom terms now allow training AI on user content with no opt out

#243

Post by lisper »

bitwalker wrote: post #215
pixl97 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully someone has the Net Terminal Gene to shut the system off.

I haven’t seen a Blame! reference in the wild before! The concept of runaway AI that never stops building more infrastructure seems like one of those dystopian scenarios that is at least semi-plausible, and the idea that humans effectively lock themselves out of control by being too clever (net terminal gene) is just the cherry on top.

> runaway AI that never stops building more infrastructure

Try driving through Irvine, California some time and you will see it happening before your very eyes.

Re: Zoom terms now allow training AI on user content with no opt out

#244

Post by rounakdatta »

gitfan86 wrote: post #99
albert_e wrote: post #63

At the scale of Zoom and MS Teams ... you could theoretically train an AI model that can autonomously conduct all meetings businesses ever need -- all day every day -- without any human ever needing to attend. So much productivity claimed back! GenAI provides the agenda, GenAI bots log in with a AI avatar and spout hallucinations, bots agree to disagree and setup a followup meeting next week after resolving fake cale…

But seriously, it gets awkward when you can ask the model, "what is the likelihood that this project we are discussing is successful?" and the model responds "this project will most likely be cancelled due to the fact that the last three initiatives like this were cancelled and the current project manager appears to be disinterested earlier in the project than last time"

It would also get awkward when you get an unexpected Slack message of "You told Jane that you'd take this point offline, make sure to actually continue the conversation".

At that point, the matrix would become completely inescapable ;)

Re: Zoom terms now allow training AI on user content with no opt out

#245

Post by zxexz »

evandale wrote: post #219
serial_dev wrote: post #194

I miss the good old days when "if you are not paying for the product, you are the product" meant I need to watch some ads on a free website. Now, even if you pay for the product, you're still the product, and every company will try to get you to train their AI.

That is why I'm back to torrenting. Cheaper and no ads just like the old days when I cut the cable cord. I'll admit I have a horrible setup and binge watching 12 random episodes of a new show in one day is a huge pain in the ass but I've decided that's a good thing!

Unfortunately that doesn’t work for things like meetings!

Re: Zoom terms now allow training AI on user content with no opt out

#246

Post by mgfist »

serial_dev wrote: post #194

I miss the good old days when "if you are not paying for the product, you are the product" meant I need to watch some ads on a free website. Now, even if you pay for the product, you're still the product, and every company will try to get you to train their AI.

I miss the good old when days when "if you are not paying for the product, you are the product" actually only applied if you are not paying for the product.

Re: Zoom terms now allow training AI on user content with no opt out

#247

Post by falcor84 »

albert_e wrote: post #63

At the scale of Zoom and MS Teams ... you could theoretically train an AI model that can autonomously conduct all meetings businesses ever need -- all day every day -- without any human ever needing to attend. So much productivity claimed back! GenAI provides the agenda, GenAI bots log in with a AI avatar and spout hallucinations, bots agree to disagree and setup a followup meeting next week after resolving fake cale…

This is actually something I've been thinking about a lot. Once we do have AGI, and it chooses to embark upon a large project, would it prefer to just do it all itself, or would it prefer to spawn independent agents to take responsibility for each part of the project, which would then need to periodically meet to coordinate?

If the latter, I do expect something not too dissimilar from current office meetings. But if course what I'm really imagining are the cylon meetings in the reimagined BSG.

Re: Zoom terms now allow training AI on user content with no opt out

#249

Post by shagie »

account-5 wrote: post #102
albert_e wrote: post #63

At the scale of Zoom and MS Teams ... you could theoretically train an AI model that can autonomously conduct all meetings businesses ever need -- all day every day -- without any human ever needing to attend. So much productivity claimed back! GenAI provides the agenda, GenAI bots log in with a AI avatar and spout hallucinations, bots agree to disagree and setup a followup meeting next week after resolving fake cale…

And this continues even after the human race disappears. There's a dystopian sci-fi novel here somewhere.

Nine Planets With No Intelligent life - https://www.bohemiandrive.com/npwil

Not so much dystopian... as philosophical. Though, Uranus was both.

Re: Zoom terms now allow training AI on user content with no opt out

#250

Post by duccinator »

TheRealPomax wrote: post #228
jamesgill wrote: post #206

It seems to me that every ‘AI’ effort I see today utterly depends on circumventing or ignoring privacy.

I like the part where the reason the US keeps allowing it is that "if we don't, China will", as if China has access to the same flood of data that US FAANG companies and contenders like Zoom have access to every second of every day. Sure, at the government level it has access to the same data as everyone else, but that firewall's still there, can't have an AI trained on data that might give a more worldly view on mat…

China might not be as successful as the west(yet) but they have their own ecosystem and have alternatives for most tech products.

All the tech companies in China are practically under the control of the party. China also has a billion+ people, even the market is smaller than the west, I think they will manage.

Not to mention the difference in privacy laws and a higher number of stem grads to throw at the problem.

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