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As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future

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71–80 of 159 posts

Re: As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future

#71
post #35

My friends who are fishery people (biologists) are all pretty sure we've doomed commercial fisheries in the ocean. It's too late to recover and no one really wants to fix the issues. Enjoy your seafood while you can because they think they'll be gone before our generation dies out.

By then we will be 3D printing fatty toro sashimi w/out the mercury.

Might not be a long wait. At least one company (wildtypefoods) is making lab made salmon and they specifically are targeting the sushi market.

Re: As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future

#72
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. just remove the subsidies, the market will take care of the rest 2. what other industry is more destructive than animal ag?

how does shipping and air travel compare? I think they dwarf animal ag

Animal ag is not just emissions, though ... it's much bigger beast. Also deforestation, biodiversity loss, eutrophication, soil erosion, water overconsumption, zoonotic diseases, overfishing, reforestation potential of pastures ...

Estimates of just emissions from animal ag are somewhere between 14.5-26%.

All transport is 16.2% (road 11.9%, aviation 1.9%, shipping 1.7%, rail 0.4%).

https://ourworldindata.org/emissions-by-sector

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36980531

Re: As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there has ever been a time in all of human history with so many existential threats. Between catastrophic climate change and resource depletion, AI, the danger of nuclear war, COVID and other potential pandemics, economic insecurity for most of the population, and farmed irrational extremist political movements, we seem to have quite a lot to deal with. Might as well just have Carrington Event 2.0 and b…

COVID was never an existential threat. I'm not aware of any pandemic being that, even smallpox or the black death. Where existential means threatening the existence of the human species.

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Re: As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future

#74
post #8

Looks like we are the paper clip optimising narrow AI we’ve all been afraid of after all… We don’t make paper clips though, we’ve optimised to make money and turn everything into it. So ashamed to be part of of it,

> We don’t make paper clips though, we’ve optimised to make money and turn everything into it.

Paperclips are at least real objects.

Money doesnt even exist if everyone isndead, its not real.

Re: As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future

#75
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps your friends work in a region like the GOM where anoxic zones are a substantial and growing issue or regions where management remains poor so the sentiment would be accurate for their domain, but it isn't even close to holding true globally for all fish stocks, neither effects of low oxygen nor overharvesting etc. There were big improvements in stock assessment and fisheries management around 15-20 years ago…

While Ray Hilborn is one of the biggest (most publishing) voices in academic fisheries research, others absolutely hate him: Greenpeace calls him a 'overfishing denier' https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/research/overfishing-denier/ >As part of their investigation into our appeal, the journal also posted a correction noting that several authors of a paper defending the Marine Stewardship Council were actually employed by…

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Re: As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

COVID was never an existential threat. I'm not aware of any pandemic being that, even smallpox or the black death. Where existential means threatening the existence of the human species.

Even a global nuclear war would not kill every single human being, so by that logic there are no existential threats. However many of these threats can collapse organised civilisation and push us back to medieval level of development.

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Re: As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future

#77
post #63
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps your friends work in a region like the GOM where anoxic zones are a substantial and growing issue or regions where management remains poor so the sentiment would be accurate for their domain, but it isn't even close to holding true globally for all fish stocks, neither effects of low oxygen nor overharvesting etc. There were big improvements in stock assessment and fisheries management around 15-20 years ago…

North Atlantic, Great Lakes, African great lakes, and northern Pacific. Lots of hand waving about improvements but the people who I know that work directly with it and have dedicated their lives to studying such things say the opposite.

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Re: As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future

#78

How did fish manage during the climatic optimum [1] some 8500 to 5500 years ago when it was between 1.5°C and 4°C warmer than it is now, let alone during the previous interglacial periods [2] which were markedly warmer than the Holocene (i.e. the current interglacial period)? If there was a marked reduction in ocean life due to reduced oxygen levels that should be visible in fossil records. If there was no such reduc…

99% of the time when people ask "how did ancient people manage to live without doctors", or whatever, you will find out that they didnt manage at all.

Life did not manage sudden changes of climate, there yave been 6 mass extinctions. 99% of spieces that have ever existed are now exticlnct and we are on an express to join them

Re: As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future

#79
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still few problems with this. - intensive fish farming can lead to environmental issues, such as water pollution from fish waste, excessive use of antibiotics and chemicals, and the depletion of wild fish stocks used for fish feed - some farmed fish species require a substantial amount of wild-caught fish to produce a relatively small amount of farmed fish - the conversion of natural habitats like mangroves and wetla…

>We have to switch to plant based diets. INCORRECT. We're on the cusp of a revolution in lab-grown fish and meat. It will be healthier, more humane, and better tasting, than the current system.

that and fusion - any day now#

Re: As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future

#80
post #3

Aside from Ocean Acidification, uncontrollable Algae Blooms, and Melting Sea Ice, we now have Ocean Deoxygenation on our plates. We also have unprecedented droughts on land as well. Humans really will be the next mass extinction event on this planet. So incredibly selfish.

I don't think there has ever been a time in all of human history with so many existential threats. Between catastrophic climate change and resource depletion, AI, the danger of nuclear war, COVID and other potential pandemics, economic insecurity for most of the population, and farmed irrational extremist political movements, we seem to have quite a lot to deal with. Might as well just have Carrington Event 2.0 and b…

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