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As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future

e360.yale.edu

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Re: As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future

#41

Post by minsight »

pirate787 wrote: post #38
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there has ever been a time in all of human history with so many existential threats. Between catastrophic climate change and resource depletion, AI, the danger of nuclear war, COVID and other potential pandemics, economic insecurity for most of the population, and farmed irrational extremist political movements, we seem to have quite a lot to deal with. Might as well just have Carrington Event 2.0 and b…

Actually, the world has never had greater economic security than it does in 2023.

Hope you can eat that.

Re: As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future

#42

Post by kuhewa »

a2tech wrote: post #35

My friends who are fishery people (biologists) are all pretty sure we've doomed commercial fisheries in the ocean. It's too late to recover and no one really wants to fix the issues. Enjoy your seafood while you can because they think they'll be gone before our generation dies out.

Perhaps your friends work in a region like the GOM where anoxic zones are a substantial and growing issue or regions where management remains poor so the sentiment would be accurate for their domain, but it isn't even close to holding true globally for all fish stocks, neither effects of low oxygen nor overharvesting etc. There were big improvements in stock assessment and fisheries management around 15-20 years ago and many formerly overfished stocks are on a positive trend since [1]

[1] https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1909726116

Re: As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future

#43

Post by losteric »

pirate787 wrote: post #37
a2tech wrote: post #35

My friends who are fishery people (biologists) are all pretty sure we've doomed commercial fisheries in the ocean. It's too late to recover and no one really wants to fix the issues. Enjoy your seafood while you can because they think they'll be gone before our generation dies out.

They are already growing fish meat in labs, hopefully that and farming will take some of the pressure off the wild fisheries.

Lab grown beef has sure had a major impact on clear-cut ranching

Re: As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future

#44

Post by hedora »

swsdsailor wrote: post #14

I am very interested in using tech to help the ocean. Does anyone have ideas for technical solutions to this?

I think the best bet is to figure out how to get desalination plants to also scrub CO2 and lithium from seawater. With government subsidies, it might actually turn a profit, and we'll need to do all three of those things anyway.

(Scrubbing CO2 from the atmosphere would also work, but would take longer to address ocean acidification.)

Re: As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future

#45

Post by bmitc »

a2tech wrote: post #35

My friends who are fishery people (biologists) are all pretty sure we've doomed commercial fisheries in the ocean. It's too late to recover and no one really wants to fix the issues. Enjoy your seafood while you can because they think they'll be gone before our generation dies out.

I feel this is going to be a pattern more and more common. It already has been increasing for decades. We have royally messed up this planet and its ecosystems.

Re: As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future

#46

Post by anonuser123456 »

a2tech wrote: post #35

My friends who are fishery people (biologists) are all pretty sure we've doomed commercial fisheries in the ocean. It's too late to recover and no one really wants to fix the issues. Enjoy your seafood while you can because they think they'll be gone before our generation dies out.

By then we will be 3D printing fatty toro sashimi w/out the mercury.

Re: As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future

#47

Post by ChrisClark »

losteric wrote: post #43
pirate787 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are already growing fish meat in labs, hopefully that and farming will take some of the pressure off the wild fisheries.

Lab grown beef has sure had a major impact on clear-cut ranching

Yeah, it turns out, things never get cheaper or created in greater quantities over time. No history of that ever happening.

Re: As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future

#48

Post by thulle »

the_third_wave wrote: post #24

How did fish manage during the climatic optimum [1] some 8500 to 5500 years ago when it was between 1.5°C and 4°C warmer than it is now, let alone during the previous interglacial periods [2] which were markedly warmer than the Holocene (i.e. the current interglacial period)? If there was a marked reduction in ocean life due to reduced oxygen levels that should be visible in fossil records. If there was no such reduc…

> How did fish manage during the climatic optimum [1] some 8500 to 5500 years ago when it was between 1.5°C and 4°C warmer than it is now

From your wikipedia link:

---8A study in 2020 estimated that the average global temperature during the warmest 200 year period of the HCO, around 6,500 years ago, was around 0.7 °C warmer than the mean for nineteenth century AD.

The HCO consisted of increases of up to 4 °C near the North Pole (in one study, winter warming of 3 to 9 °C and summer of 2 to 6 °C in northern central Siberia).[8] Northwestern Europe experienced warming, but there was cooling in Southern Europe.[9] The average temperature change appears to have declined rapidly with latitude and so essentially no change in mean temperature is reported at low and middle latitudes.

---8So, the effect then was localized to the waters where there's more oxygen anyway, and having temperature going in different directions in different parts of Europe and at a much slower rate than current changes, would make it easier for the fish to migrate? Unclear how water temperatures behaved at different depths though.

Re: As ocean oxygen levels dip, fish face an uncertain future

#50

Post by myshpa »

pirate787 wrote: post #40
myshpa wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still few problems with this. - intensive fish farming can lead to environmental issues, such as water pollution from fish waste, excessive use of antibiotics and chemicals, and the depletion of wild fish stocks used for fish feed - some farmed fish species require a substantial amount of wild-caught fish to produce a relatively small amount of farmed fish - the conversion of natural habitats like mangroves and wetla…

>We have to switch to plant based diets. INCORRECT. We're on the cusp of a revolution in lab-grown fish and meat. It will be healthier, more humane, and better tasting, than the current system.

No. All meat in labs is grown in 1.5 L plastic bottles now, and they have like 5 of them in the whole lab.

It may take decades until it's ready to replace meat on the scale and price needed.

We (and the environment) unfortunately don't have that much time.

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