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A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

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Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#291

Post by bryanrasmussen »

codedokode wrote: post #285
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>IE was absolutely hated for not evolving. I'm curious what "its own vision" was, other than "do as little as possible, while Mozilla and Opera keeps pushing forward." IE6 was the best for a long time, also it had VML which it kept in place and didn't move on SVG for a looooonnnnnngggg time, because of course VML was integrated in office products as the vector markup format and probably because it was made in MS. So…

IE6 had a lot of bugs (not different vision of standards, but bugs). A kind of bugs that looked like developers were lazy to cover all possible cases. As an example, take "double margin bug" [1]. It cannot be explained by alternative standards. I remember there were more bugs of this type, but can't google them quickly. [1] https://css-tricks.com/ie-css-bugs-thatll-get-you-every-time...

I can see that article was from 2008, IE6 was release in 2001.

So again on its initial release, IE6 was the best browser. Did it have bugs? You bet! Were those bugs as irritating as the ones in Netscape - well the XSL-T that was generating html for a site once put a p inside of an li and Netscape would blue screen my Windows machine 75% of the time when that happened, unfortunately it turns out you cannot do a quick CSS hack for that.

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#292

Post by simiones »

INGSOCIALITE wrote: post #150
roenxi wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What difference do you see between a browser and an OS? A browser is an OS. They perform the same role. A context to run whatever 3rd party software. If a project is too complex for a single organisation, then break it up into 2-3 projects. That is how OSS software handles complex tasks. Someone could do a real LLVM-style browser project then we don't have to use javascript which'd catapult us all into the 21st centu…

> What difference do you see between a browser and an OS? A browser is an OS. They perform the same role. A context to run whatever 3rd party software. This is where everything has gone screwy. A browser should only be rendering and displaying html files. Browsers should be minuscule in size, and /definitely/ not run any 3rd party software.

The web was invented in 1989, became a public project in 1991, and JavaScript support for it appeared in 1995, Java Applets the same year, with Flash and ActiveX following in 1996. So it was a static document model for ~6 years, and an app platform for ~27 years.

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#293

Post by rejectfinite »

TheRoque wrote: post #49
simula67 wrote: post #38

> to explain why they should stop using #Chromium / #GoogleChrome and use #Firefox or #Epiphany as their main #web #browser Or use Brave.

Why is brave shilled so much ? I don't think I recalled seeing as many ads from a browser other than brave. Using a browser that claims to be the new savior of the internet, "security and privacy focused", while being related to a crypto and heavily marketing their product... Meh.

>Why is brave shilled so much?

It is the only good Chromium based browser. It is also open source unlike Vivaldi and Opera/Edge etc.

All the crypto shit can be turned off, annoying yes, but perfectly doable in the standard options menu.

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#294

Post by styfle »

nathan_phoenix wrote: post #47

Expected a huge list and there's only 3 items there, and one of them, JPEG XL, is kinda moot because it didn't seem viable until recently after Safari started supporting it... Feel that the list could have had much more substance with the addition of webUSB, webSerial and such features which Chrome just strong armed. In the current form the list and toot don't really drive the point home...

Yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised if JXL gets implemented in Chrome after Safari and Firefox implementations are stabilized.

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#295

Post by manojlds »

mrtksn wrote: post #57

Remember the "Safari is the new IE" narrative? Just because Safari doesn't support some API doesn't make it IE, IE wasn't an inferior browser at the beginning either. What made IE the IE everyone hates was its departure from standards(?) and enforcing its own vision of the web thanks to its enormous market share. On IE's case, MS probably stagnated it to prevent competition against its desktop Apps business and on Go…

Chrome is the Desktop IE Safari is the mobile IE

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#296

Post by bryanrasmussen »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #290
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>IE was absolutely hated for not evolving. I'm curious what "its own vision" was, other than "do as little as possible, while Mozilla and Opera keeps pushing forward." IE6 was the best for a long time, also it had VML which it kept in place and didn't move on SVG for a looooonnnnnngggg time, because of course VML was integrated in office products as the vector markup format and probably because it was made in MS. So…

> Also Safari had advanced color profiles before the other browsers, Safari does better work on accessibility than the other browsers, if most web developers thinks Safari is the new IE and Chrome is great then I think they aren't paying more than superficial attention to things Apple seem to be better than most at accessibility features and have been since day one. It's a shame that the best in business for accessib…

Yes, I respect Apple for their commitment to quality on this front - although at times their decisions do drive me up the wall.

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#297

Post by layer8 »

tommiegannert wrote: post #64
mrtksn wrote: post #57

Remember the "Safari is the new IE" narrative? Just because Safari doesn't support some API doesn't make it IE, IE wasn't an inferior browser at the beginning either. What made IE the IE everyone hates was its departure from standards(?) and enforcing its own vision of the web thanks to its enormous market share. On IE's case, MS probably stagnated it to prevent competition against its desktop Apps business and on Go…

IE was absolutely hated for not evolving. I'm curious what "its own vision" was, other than "do as little as possible, while Mozilla and Opera keeps pushing forward." Now, this is from the perspective of the web developer. I don't think IE was ever hated the same way from the end-user perspective. Chrome is still innovating, but now end-users hate it, because it's trying to be too much. The "new IE" hat still belongs…

> I don't think IE was ever hated the same way from the end-user perspective.

Yep, for various usability reasons, I used IE as my daily driver until Windows updates disabled it. Never liked Chrome. Using Firefox now.

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#300

Post by kybernetikos »

insanitybit wrote: post #260
sph wrote: post #142

What is the excuse of all people reading this thread in agreement and still using Chrome? As I mentioned elsewhere, this is preaching to the choir. A choir of Chrome users. Google wouldn't be so dominant if tech people like us would stop making lazy excuses to continue its hegemony. In Dante's Divina Commedia , there is a circle of hell for those too lazy to take a stance [1]. If it were written today, it would inclu…

Manifest v3 has been delayed and was/is pretty legitimate, I don't think most people really know wtf they're talking about when it comes to v3. JPEGXL doesn't exactly seem like that big of a deal and is now being developed again - sounds fine, Chrome went "seems like no one wants this" and then people said "we want this" and now it's being worked on. WEI isn't even properly proposed yet, it's so early. So these 3 thi…

> Mozilla won't earn me as a user until their CEO is removed

Is this because of your opinion on the fairness of her salary, or some other issue?

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